Do the people being arrested for Palestine Action not know about the sledgehammer attack?

[noblegiraffe]

With 500-odd people having been arrested for expressing support for proscribed terrorist organisation Palestine Action, I'm just baffled as to why they are willing to get a criminal record which could bar them from travel to the USA and work in education for an organisation whose members attacked police officers with a sledgehammer.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/disturbing-sledgehammer-attack-police-during-9463071

Regardless of whether this group should be proscribed as a terrorist organisation, surely no one should look at that and think 'yeah, that's a group I think should be allowed to continue to do its thing, attack a few more police officers with sledgehammers, that's the hill I'm willing to die on.'

Wouldn't you think 'I'm not sure if they should be proscribed as terrorists, but given the sledgehammer attack, I'm not going to turn up with banners in support and be arrested for them, I'll just get on with protesting the genocide instead because that's a better cause'.

So do they not know about the violence? Or do they not care and are willing to support violent organisations?

(note this is not a thread for debating Gaza, I want to talk about British people who are absolutely legally allowed to protest genocide but aren't allowed to support proscribed terrorist organisations - which is also not allowed on MN).

I don’t regard this government very highly as being competent or honest but I have enough faith in the police, security services, civil servants and Yvette Cooper to accept that enough is known about this group to require its proscription.

What have they done that constitutes terrorism. Criminal damage doesn't equal terrorism. It’s criminal damage.

This.

Oh dear. Another back of the fag packet policy. I voted Labour and admire KS’ performance on the world stage. A great deal more clever and subtle than I suspect many recognise, particularly with respect to the odious DT.
But mate, c’mon, keep your eye on the UK ball.
Where are these people, at risk of 14 years' imprisonment for their heinous crimes with cardboard and sharpies, to be imprisoned? Shall we release more demonstrably dangerous criminals to house them?

As a white, Home Counties type woman in my 60s, I suppose I would subconsciously pick out others like myself from the offenders. There were many. Oldest 86 I believe, with her walking frame?

If I am wrong and these no doubt very cross women are indeed a secret military wing, frankly our facial recognition systems are f*#ked.

I agree with Rupert Murdoch’s Times. Off for a lay down in a darkened room because I NEVER thought I would say that.

I won’t comment on the present charges. That’s an active case.

But the proscription was partly based on intelligence. I’m just saying that I have enough faith in the system to accept the decision.

Are there any other proscriptions you have a problem with, or is just this one with this cause?

I've been wondering why the government hasn't been more clear about what Palestine Action have been up to, and that they have attacked people, including police officers and a civilian looking at the ram raid report. Yvette Cooper has said that she wants to be clear that this is not a non-violent organisation but hasn't given details.

And I'm assuming it's because the ram raid and sledgehammer attack are currently going through the courts, therefore the government commenting on them would be prejudicing a trial?

It wasn't about the criminal damage to the aircraft or anything else. It was the fact they embarrassed senior figures in the RAF and the government.

If they had just spray painted some buildings in the centre of London there would not have been such a response. The fact they essentially walked into and then out of what should be a very secure military facility has embarrssed some very powerful people and this is the response.

Absolutely. I was horrified by the lack of effective security. Those people had paint. People far more sinister could have carried explosives.

No one thinks that the 86 year old lady is a member of secret militia (or that they will be jailed for their placards).

I do wonder whether the 86 year old knows whether the group she is supporting have members currently up on GBH and/or violent disorder charges for their actions on behalf of the group.

Yvette Cooper has referenced “disturbing information” about future plans for attacks, which can't yet be disclosed. More details may emerge through court cases, but until then it seems rash to support them based wholly on their stated intentions and their public facade. And it's possible we will never have full access to the information on which the decision was based, if some of it jeopardises national security.

She has also emphasized that the proscription is not about Palestine or Palestinian rights, but about a “specific and narrow organisation” whose actions meet the statutory threshold for terrorism.

So far, Palestine Action’s activities have escalated in frequency, severity, and violence since early 2024. The group has targeted defence firms, financial institutions, universities, and government buildings, causing millions in damage. The decision was based on a robust, evidence-based process involving security services, police, and government experts.

She has said:

It is vitally important that those seeking to protest peacefully, including pro-Palestinian groups, those opposing the actions of the Israeli Government, and those demanding changes in the UK’s foreign policy, can continue to do so. The right to peaceful protest is a cornerstone of our democracy. Should Parliament vote to proscribe, that right will be unaffected.

However, some people still prefer to nail their flag to this particular banner; let them, I guess, but don't cry about the consequences.

So based on intelligence.
Doesnt it occur that’s an excuse for we haven’t got anything that actually constitutes terrorism. So we’ll fudge it and call it intelligence. So the papers can’t request a FOI

PAs modus operandi isn’t terrorism. Never has been.

In terms of others. Gosh I’d have to do a lot of derailing homework on that one. Can I include Anne Boleyn was beheaded on a trumped up charge

I did find it astonishing that they got away with it at what is the biggest airbase in the UK. This wasn't some seldom-used training ground in the middle of the Highlands, it was Brize Norton. Whoever was in charge of security has probably been transferred to the British equivalent of Siberia with a size 12 up their backside.

You keep repeating this, along with pointedly refusing to discuss anything wider.

I think the categorisation is just down to state embarrassment, I can’t see any other countries that have labelled the group at terrorist group.

It seemed a simple enough and relevant question.

If you knew of other cases of proscribed groups that showed the misuse of intelligence, that would be interesting and potentially persuasive.

But we’re offered the execution of Anne Boleyn.

Well yes, I did start the thread in order to discuss it.

Don't you think it's a strange phenomenon, 86 year olds mobilising in support of a violent group?

It's not a case of what someone else tells us. Its a case of actual evidence out there proving what they've done. Most of which has been admitted to by PA themselves (what a clever bunch they are!) You can minimise and dispute all day long what they've done, but the proof is there for all to see. I think you're just seeing what you want to see.

Seemingly they do. She is at risk of a terrorism charge in her record.

Indeed and apparently there were additional ‘terrorist’ attacks that were planned but the details of which are not in the public domain because there are legal proceedings concerning them… the UN also, therefore, is not speaking from an informed position. The govt will have made its decision to proscribe it on the basis of its own COBRA/highly confidential security data. Just because PA have not been caught doing/planning such acts in other countries (yet) and thus the UN doesn’t deem them to be a threat elswhere is irrelevant to UK governance and security.

Those protesting are, frankly, naive idiots. They are perfectly at liberty to protest the war and the actions of Israel without aligning themselves with PA… thus free speach is NOT being curtailed.

Do you know of any
Are you aware of the U.K. lieing about so called intelligence to the electorate.

You don’t have to go too far back in history

Yes, because expressing support for a proscribed terrorist organisation is illegal, which she knew when she held up a placard expressing support for a proscribed terrorist organisation.

A lot of people don't want to work in education or visit the USA. (Especially with the current lunatics in charge.) I'm not sure they'd care too much about being banned from doing so.

But it all seems such a performative waste of time. It doesn't help the Palestinians. PA are not the only pro-Palestine group. A lot of the pro-Palestine movement already comes off as dangerously close to openly supporting terrorism (Hamas) and this isn't helping that perception.

What evidence ‘out there’ that constitutes terrorism.

If the evidence is ‘out there’ then the UN will be aware of it. And they all disagree

They are protesting against the deliberate starvation of one incredibly wealthy state and the might of its western funded military machine against the deliberate starvation of potentially millions of some of the most vulnerable civilians on the planet at this time, obviously.

Destroying our defence capability is a very big deal.

The government have clearly said there is lots of information they have that we're not privy to suggesting PA are very dangerous to the security of the UK. I'm putting my trust in the Governmrnt on this occasion rather than a couple of random terrorist sympathisers on MN who seem to be set on putting us all in harms way to fit their own agendas. I'm guessing you also sympathise with those poor misunderstood guys Hamas too....

By, not of. Apologise, don’t know how to edit.