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The Wargame - a mobile alert has come through that missiles are headed your way...

53 replies

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 11:51

I've just finished listening to The Wargame podcast - a scenario where Russia attacks the UK and a cabinet of politicians and experts react and make decisions in response. Ben Wallace is the Prime Minister, Amber Rudd is Home Secretary, Jack Straw is Foreign Secretary along with various others.

It was both interesting and terrifying to hear how screwed Britain is militarily, particularly with the US now promoting an America First policy. We appear to have barely any resources, and those that we do have seem to be largely out of service. The podcast is a long advert for increasing military spending.

There is a section where missiles are headed for London, there's nothing that can be done about it, and the government decide to use the new emergency alert system to send a message to everyone's mobiles that missiles are incoming. Which is great, but then what? The is a question about whether people should get under the kitchen table.

What would you do? Should we know what to do? The podcast seems to suggest that this is something that needs addressing.

Anyway, I think it's a really good listen (although slow to get going) and some of the fake news segments are really quite chilling.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-wargame-podcast-what-if-russia-attacked-the-uk-13381047

The Wargame podcast: What if Russia attacked the UK?

A new five-part podcast series from Sky News and Tortoise called The Wargame simulates a Russian attack on the UK. It is the kind of exercise that is genuinely tested inside government - but in this version nothing is classified.

https://news.sky.com/story/the-wargame-podcast-what-if-russia-attacked-the-uk-13381047

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 11:53

I'd be none-the-wiser because I've turned this nonsense off, so I'd probably be sat on the loo or something when I got vaporised.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 11:56

"This nonsense"?

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 12:24

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 11:56

"This nonsense"?

The whole "the end of the world is nigh" mobile alerts referred to in the topic header.

PhilippaGeorgiou · 09/08/2025 12:39

So if we upped defence spending, would we be any less screwed if Russian missiles were incoming? Leaving aside the fact that, albeit Putin appears to lack any sanity, he would attack one NATO country when there is nothing at all to gain from such an attack? And if he has attacked more than one NATO country we are probably talking nuclear missiles in the air in which case us and the Russians (and probably everyone else in the world) can kiss our arses goodbye.

tumblingdowntherabbithole · 09/08/2025 12:42

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 11:53

I'd be none-the-wiser because I've turned this nonsense off, so I'd probably be sat on the loo or something when I got vaporised.

Exactly. I'd be happily oblivious, lol.

ShesTheAlbatross · 09/08/2025 12:44

Nuclear missile headed for anywhere near me? I’m doing nothing, except potentially heading towards the blast. Absolutely no interest in surviving a nuclear apocalypse.

A “regular” missile? I suppose I’d attempt to get to the safest bit of the house - our understairs cupboard sits right in the centre, so probably there. Don’t know if that’s right though.

WhiteNoiseBlur · 09/08/2025 12:48

I guess anyone on a flight at that time would survive? And when they landed they’d have to repopulate the earth..wonder how many people are in the air at any one time?

Preppercorn · 09/08/2025 12:56

Any airburst missiles would emit an EMP and short out electronics on the planes making them fall out of the sky. Airburst missiles have been seen as a standard nuke tactic since at least Threads because they make reference to it then.

As for the old "I would run towards the blast" announcement... You wouldn't have time. You'd either be caught in it because you were near the place it hit or you wouldn't. You could live your whole life in the centre of an obvious target location such as the centre of London I suppose if it made you feel better.

notimagain · 09/08/2025 12:56

WhiteNoiseBlur · 09/08/2025 12:48

I guess anyone on a flight at that time would survive? And when they landed they’d have to repopulate the earth..wonder how many people are in the air at any one time?

I wouldn't bet on everyone airborne surviving, the various nuclear effects go up as well as out.

Anything out over the oceans might be OK but given airfields and airports would almost certainly be targets if it was an all out attack there might not be many places to set down safely once the aircraft made landfall.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 12:58

PhilippaGeorgiou · 09/08/2025 12:39

So if we upped defence spending, would we be any less screwed if Russian missiles were incoming? Leaving aside the fact that, albeit Putin appears to lack any sanity, he would attack one NATO country when there is nothing at all to gain from such an attack? And if he has attacked more than one NATO country we are probably talking nuclear missiles in the air in which case us and the Russians (and probably everyone else in the world) can kiss our arses goodbye.

Apparently we have a very low capability to shoot down ballistic missiles (one ship mentioned in the podcast) so increasing defence spending could improve this.

You should listen to the podcast - the aim is to create cracks in NATO not wipe out everyone in a nuclear blast. It's a highly contrived scenario but nonetheless highlights some major flaws in our defence capabilities (including lack of preparedness in the general population).

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 12:59

Should point out that the missiles in the podcast are not nuclear! Damage is localised. Think Ukraine not Hiroshima.

OP posts:
FindingMeno · 09/08/2025 13:02

I've just been reading "Nuclear War- a scenario " by Annie Jacobsen.
It is truly truly horrifying.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 13:03

@PhilippaGeorgiou

So if we upped defence spending, would we be any less screwed if Russian missiles were incoming?

Not at all, but there is a coherent argument for vastly upping spending on conventional forces so we have the means to say, resist a Russian attempted invasion of Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania, not only resist it, but eject the invader so thoroughly and comprehensively they struggle to recover from it. This is what would cause Putin to think more carefully about expansionism, and in doing so immediately reduce the risk that anything ever escalates to the point whereby there is a significant nuclear exchange between major powers.

albeit Putin appears to lack any sanity

I do not believe that Putin is mad, not in the way that is oft repeated. On the contrary, he's an extremely shrewd operator. He knows precisely how far he can push, and where, before western powers will object, he also plays the likes of Trump like a fiddle. He's persisted for such a length in Russia because he has played their Oligarchy well enough that they have almost a parasitical mutual interdependence.

Yes, Russia made a mess of the Ukrainian invasion, however, this is not indicative of Putin himself being "insane". It's a sign that some Soviet behaviours still persist, including obfuscation when truth would paint you in a bad light, and also endemic corruption right down to grass roots level in the military leaving it wholly unprepared for an invasion on such scale. Nobody was going to tell Putin that, because the entire thing is a massive chain of bullshit being filtered upwards, right from the very bottom to the very top.

Regardless, Russia is still, slowly but surely, defeating Ukraine by attrition, and nothing the West has said or done is preventing that from happening. Again, Putin holds all the cards here and is playing the West like a fiddle.

he would attack one NATO country when there is nothing at all to gain from such an attack?

You have to understand that the Western concept of "gain" is entirely different to that which exists in Russia. Putin is no different to any of his predecessors, in that he sees security as a question of space and distance. If, for argument's sake, he was able to snip off and annexe a Baltic State or two, it increases Russia's sense of security because it means NATO is further away from the heart of Russia, and it decreases NATO authority ever so slightly into the bargain as there is one or two fewer NATO members. You need to ask yourself, "is NATO Article 5 absolutely categorical and unequivocal?" The only time it has been invoked is in the aftermath of 9/11 when the US itself invoked it. Nobody hesitated to fall-in and assist the US, but say Estonia is attacked, do you seriously, honestly believe that the entirety of NATO is going to pitch itself into a conflict that could, very easily, turn into a nuclear holocaust, just for the sake of maintaining Estonian sovereignty?

The answer to that question is quite clearly "No", and Putin knows this. This is why it's fundamentally important to increase Conventional force to "don't even try it pal" levels, because short of that, Putin will try it, and once he starts, the outcome is inevitable. Estonia will be given up without so much as a whimper, because nobody is risking nuclear annihilation over Estonia.

notimagain · 09/08/2025 13:06

Apparently we have a very low capability to shoot down ballistic missiles (one ship mentioned in the podcast) so increasing defence spending could improve this.

They were probably talking about the (six) Type 45 destroyers with the (later version) of the Aster missile.

Has a Anti-Ballistic Missile capability but it is reported to relatively limited.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:07

You need to ask yourself, "is NATO Article 5 absolutely categorical and unequivocal?"

The podcast goes into this, I didn't realise that countries were perfectly allowed to ignore it.

The scenario is one that calls for a conventional weapons response and the podcast is clear that we do not have the ability to make a sustained conventional weapons response, we would, in a very short amount of time, be forced to consider either a nuclear response or complete capitulation.

OP posts:
notimagain · 09/08/2025 13:09

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 12:59

Should point out that the missiles in the podcast are not nuclear! Damage is localised. Think Ukraine not Hiroshima.

That scenario in itself is a problem...how did the folks in the Podcast know they were only facing conventional incoming?

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:12

notimagain · 09/08/2025 13:09

That scenario in itself is a problem...how did the folks in the Podcast know they were only facing conventional incoming?

Good question, I think they mentioned that you can only tell after it lands whether it was nuclear or not?

But the assumption was conventional, like I don't think Ukraine gets missile alerts that it routinely thinks could be nuclear. Balance of probabilities?

OP posts:
XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 13:12

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:07

You need to ask yourself, "is NATO Article 5 absolutely categorical and unequivocal?"

The podcast goes into this, I didn't realise that countries were perfectly allowed to ignore it.

The scenario is one that calls for a conventional weapons response and the podcast is clear that we do not have the ability to make a sustained conventional weapons response, we would, in a very short amount of time, be forced to consider either a nuclear response or complete capitulation.

The podcast goes into this, I didn't realise that countries were perfectly allowed to ignore it

Yip. It's almost a failsafe, because the last thing the US wants is some "peon" microstate member chucking metaphorical bricks at Russia, China, or whoever, then Russia or China retaliate, and the wee trouble-maker goes running to the US, UK, France, Germany and so on saying "look!, he hit me! you have to batter him!".

You could ask, "why is NATO admitting loony members?!?!", but the reality is, places can be stable and benign one minute, then turn into hotbeds of bampottery the next, and this doesn't invalidate their NATO membership card. Look at Orban in Hungary. Poland has flirted with neo-fascism as well.

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:15

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 13:12

The podcast goes into this, I didn't realise that countries were perfectly allowed to ignore it

Yip. It's almost a failsafe, because the last thing the US wants is some "peon" microstate member chucking metaphorical bricks at Russia, China, or whoever, then Russia or China retaliate, and the wee trouble-maker goes running to the US, UK, France, Germany and so on saying "look!, he hit me! you have to batter him!".

You could ask, "why is NATO admitting loony members?!?!", but the reality is, places can be stable and benign one minute, then turn into hotbeds of bampottery the next, and this doesn't invalidate their NATO membership card. Look at Orban in Hungary. Poland has flirted with neo-fascism as well.

Edited

That's basically what Russia says the UK has done. The first episode is called False Flag.

OP posts:
FindingMeno · 09/08/2025 13:17

I was very surprised in the book I read that there is so little capacity to take out ballistic missiles and that there is also a remarkably low success rate.

notimagain · 09/08/2025 13:24

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:12

Good question, I think they mentioned that you can only tell after it lands whether it was nuclear or not?

But the assumption was conventional, like I don't think Ukraine gets missile alerts that it routinely thinks could be nuclear. Balance of probabilities?

There are very real risks in using a nuclear capable system in a conventional role against an enemy which has the capability to respond with it's own nuclear weapons, and indeed may fire them before the nature of the initial strike is known.

Ukraine being non-nuclear and with no really long range system can't generate that level of uncertainty in Putin's mind so he can plink away with medium range missles to his hearts content

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 13:28

noblegiraffe · 09/08/2025 13:15

That's basically what Russia says the UK has done. The first episode is called False Flag.

Russia has, and has always had, a very bizarre relationship with the concept of "truth". Look at what they are accusing Ukraine of. Apparently their Jewish PM is openly encouraging and championing Nazi'ism, so Russia has to, yet again, deal with the "Fascist Scourge" and "liberate" Ukraine.

It's not just the flat-out lying, it's the fact that Russia has always been brazen and doesn't care that the lies are utterly transparent. Remember the Salisbury poisonings? Everyone knows these guys are Russian agents, we even know precisely what they did. Russia "nope, they are just tourists obsessed with church spires. Look, here are some arbitrary facts they picked up about church spire heights which proves their tourist credentials!"

It's almost like they are laughing up their sleeves, like its all a big ruse and big joke to them. "you know we are lying, we know we are lying, but we don't care, and we are going to peddle the lie in any case regardless of what you produce to disprove it". Lavrov does exactly the same at the UN. Sits and lies through his teeth, blatantly and transparently so. They simply do not care because they know the lies carry no meaningful consequences, and I personally think they find that amusing. It's yet another of these Soviet hangovers. It's a doctrine that Joseph Goebbels utilised, so did Stalin, and it's still how Russia deals with international relations to this day.

Oh, and Russian state-sponsored hacking/electronic espionage? They leave Cyrillic Metadata everywhere they go. Russia - "nope, nothing to do with us, this is just yet another baseless accusation from a desperate West". They deliberately do not cover their tracks because Russia wants the West to know precisely who is tampering with their systems. Doesn't stop them lying when caught though. It's almost like a trolling exercise.

DarkForces · 09/08/2025 13:30

I'd open the nice wine we've been saving for a special occasion and down it. Then start on the liquor cupboard while giving dd and ddog a hug and blasting my favourite songs. I'd hope it'd be a quick death.

notimagain · 09/08/2025 13:30

FindingMeno · 09/08/2025 13:17

I was very surprised in the book I read that there is so little capacity to take out ballistic missiles and that there is also a remarkably low success rate.

The physics/dynamics of trying to hit an incoming warhead that is travelling multiple times the speed of time, is possibly manoeuvring to avoid being engaged and possibly also accompanied by decoys is pretty extreme.

Those few systems that can do it generally do best if they are positioned near the intended impact point of the incoming warheads...so they can generally only protect a limited area and they cannot be 100% reliable.

ItsameLuigi · 09/08/2025 13:43

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/08/2025 11:53

I'd be none-the-wiser because I've turned this nonsense off, so I'd probably be sat on the loo or something when I got vaporised.

Honestly I have very little will to live, send the kids to their dad's to be safe and I'd sit and wait 😂

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