Who broke Britain?

[User32459]

Who do you most blame for our downfall as a nation?

A) Tony Blair and New Labour (97-2010)

B) The Tories (2010-2024)

C) The current Labour government

D) Brexit and Nigel Farage's lies

I think the answer is all of the above and the current government are an absolute disaster, but to be fair to them they've come in at the end when the damage is done. It's not 1997 anymore when they can get away with Blairite policies.

Labour have a lot to answer for but i'd probably go B. The Tories just about got everything wrong. Did they do anything good at all? And ultimately their shocking governance led to Brexit as well.

And the failures of the lot of them will need to Nigel Farage as Prime Minister.

Thatcher started it. But increasingly right-wing policies over the years have left us where we are. I think it's a global problem though. The result of unfettered capitalism and it will only get worse. There's been a huge transfer of wealth from the middle classes and government to the super- wealthy ie the top 1%. This is not sustainable. We need to stop punching down and look at the real culprits: the super wealthy.

Actually, the utilities, building societies and other mutuals were initially sold/given to individuals, who were the ones who quickly sold to the financial markets to make a quick killing. We shouldn't forget all the individual bank and insurance policy holders who voted FOR demutualisation and privatisation so they could get their personal windfalls by selling them almost immediately via the stock market! Re utilities, there was massive advertising for private individuals to buy shares in BT, British Gas (Don't tell Sid!), etc., and likewise, most just sold to the stock market as soon as possible to make a few hundred pounds. The idea was sound, but what went wrong was that no restrictions were put into place as to how long shares had to be held before being sold, which is what caused most people to sell to institutions within days. There were also lots of people opening multiple bank accounts with different building societies in the hope that they'd be demutualised in the future, leading to a windfall. Private individuals certainly weren't innocent bystanders in the privatisation/demutualisation years!

B.

Tories, without doubt.

I think it's a combination and the public need to take some responsibility too.

Of course the NHS can't be affordable and fix all the problems we cause ourselves or think we're entitled to. There need to be priorities and those are hard to take.

And the breakdown of family and community life. I know times have changed etc and people don't want the old ways, but so much of the anti social behaviour and MH troubles in young people could be helped by supporting families in communities, rather than vilifying struggling parents.

A lot of the discontent around immigration was caused by the culture, under Blair and Cameron, of l not being able to talk about it for fear of being thought racist. It's now gone completely the other way so it's "fine" for nasty racists to have their say and run for office. Immigration isn't all about race of course, but the distinction has got very blurred. Numbers do need to be controlled, but the current situation makes no sense at all and is mostly caused by the ridiculous amount of time it takes to process applications, more than the numbers of people coming.

You can't answer B, C or D because Britain was broken before any of them came about. I remember this clearly.

You might answer A, I don't know. Things were certainly exceptionally broken by the early 2000 - it's just a question of whether they were broken sooner than that. And I don't know the answer to that. The turning point, wherever it was, was definitely before 2000. I know this from adult personal experience and recollections of shit going down.

Yes, and this is such a polarising view.

I'd also argue that her right to buy, caused irreparable harm, but of course very popular for those it helped (and their children who are now often renting the houses to the people who should be living in them as social housing)

Actually though I'd also argue it's not that broken. Is it really worse than it was in the 1970s? The continued use of the slogan is doing a lot of of harm.

No, I don't think it is. For those who can't remember the 70s, it was very bleak indeed. I think that happened is that it went too far the other way in the 80s,90s,00s and that we were artificially living beyond our means, but now we have to reign back on our expectations, which is difficult, when one generation has done exceptionally well, but those before and after much worse.

The rot set in under Wilson/Callaghan and the rise of the over-mighty unions and creep of the state. Thatcher or someone like her was inevitable after that.

Blair was a spendthrift and appalling dissembler but he did at least get the need for wealth creation and was wary of the Labour left. Unfortunately Labour’s retraced its steps to pre-Blair social and industrial policy. They’re packaged differently, but the left of Labour holds the reins again.

Covid was a massive shock to the economy. And Brexit didn’t help, though will be much more minor in its effect in the longer term, IMO.

Thatcher got a lot of blame, but British industry, coal mining, ship building, etc., had been declining for a couple of decades before her. Pretty sure that more coal mines closed before her time than during her time. Same with the other "heavy" industries that declined massively in the 60s and 70s.

Who broke Britain? You, us, we the British population did. Did you all forget this is a democracy? You get the government you voted for, too bad you, we, us made the wrong choices. Why blame the politicians now? blame yourself.

Yes I agree with you, plus we react to things mostly. Thatcher a reaction to the winter of discontent, Brexit to Blair, Cons due to the crash, Reform to Labour.

Thatcher.

And now the super rich are picking the flesh off the bones

Tony Blair and Gordon Brown

I was about to type "Thatcher started it" but you beat me to it. I also agree with the rest of your comment.

Haven't RTFT, But our premise is flawed so anything you get from this discussion will be of little to no value.

(Has anyone else pointed that our ?)

A, B and C.
Especially A.

Can we add Phil and Kirsty to the list?

Sorry for my previous snarky reply. I can now see the value of this thread.

225%

Brexit is an economic disaster. I think a lot of the problems really stem from that. Quite a lot of our issues about spending are made even worse by our stagnating economy snd what Brexit has done to the City of London.

This may be fixable in 20 years. But honestly it’s been a form of fiscal suicide to kill off or grossly curtail the most successful part of the British economy. The people who voted for it are morons

People broke Britain. Simple as that. No one party is to blame but the people that live here , their values , their behaviours and the damn right lazy attitude of some are the major downfall.

A Blair and Gordon sell all the gold Brown

I think a lot of Thatcher's policies have only recently started to have a negative effect. Selling off council housing and right-to-buy probably did make life better for those who made use of it at the time. But, it's been terrible for subsequent generations who can't afford to buy, and for whom there's now not nearly enough social housing to go round.
The housing crisis is one of the most broken things about the UK today.
Many seeds were sown during the Thatcher era, including a general dramatic shift to the right politically, making anything moderately left-wing now seems far left. I think a culture of selfishness was encouraged in the 80s, and society still hasn't recovered from that.

Definitely not labour. They walked into an already problematic situation and there's no easy fix.