Is your primary rated outstanding?

[Acatcalledmia]

If your primary is rated outstanding, do you feel it’s justified? Obviously it probably is outstanding from the inspection and criteria, but the term outstanding triggers an image of something more than a run of the mill school. Ours is fine, but I’m not blown away by it. Is it a bit like vanity sizing?

I honestly wouldn’t overthink Ofsted ratings. Yes I would worry about the lower ratings, but as long as it’s ‘good or over’ and you’ve looked around and feel positive about it I would say you’re okay.

Outstanding schools can turn into Requires Improvement in one inspection so unless the school you’re thinking of has been inspected recently it is like an MOT. At that moment of time based on the criteria of the time it was outstanding, anything could change within a year or more.

I’ve got to do the senior school trawl next academic year (going into y5) and it’s hard to know what a school is actually like until you’re in it. I think of things that swayed me when I chose this school and how answers or image don’t always reflect reality.

There’s a senior school near us that gets quite good results, but it turns out many many parents tutor as there’s not enough staff to adequately cover the gcse subjects they offer. Facilities don’t mean anything if they’re not/rarely used etc. Even things like whether a school fosters a bullying culture or not (from students) - schools are all going to say they don’t tolerate it, yet some will keep turning a blind eye to bullying, be it from pupils or staff.

My sons is requires improvement but I couldn't be happier with it.

Yes. A small village school and has been rated outstanding for many many years. Is excellent and highly sought after.

My primary is outstanding and I have seen the ofsted process many times as a governor. I would say yew its justified, its extremely thorough. However, I still think it's important to visit a school because you get a better feel than just looking at reports.

My daughter starts reception in September. The school was “Outstanding” when we applied. Sadly, it had an inspection a few weeks ago and is now mainly “Inadequate” with a touch of “Required Improvement”. Argh.

Do you know why?

Lots of reasons, sadly. It was kind of an across the board thing rather than one specific area. Issues included leadership, safeguarding and SEND provision especially.

Same here! I wonder if it’s the same one! Kent?

A Good is more desirable IMO. A local Outstanding didn’t get inspected for 14 years (because it was Outstanding), then plummeted to Requires Improvement because things had slid that much, with no checks going on - kids escaping and being found down the road, terrible admin etc. I prefer to look at the breakdown - eg our school is Good with Outstanding behaviour, personal development and leadership. Above that, I prefer to just go by vibe and see what feels best.

Ofsted keeps moving the goal posts. Heads need to keep abreast of any changes and implement them. Outstanding schools sometimes rest on their laurels, or are so busy rushing around implementing all the time consuming things from their last Ofsted that other stuff falls by the way-side. Also, some heads know how to play the system and change everything around for the inspection to get the best grade possible - and then go back to normal.

Both the school I work at and the one DD went to , are rated outstanding. Neither are, especially DD’s.

For secondaries, if you can sit outside the school at home time and take the same bus/train as the pupils it will give you an extra insight into behaviour/culture and what the kids gossip about.

Also...schools were incentived some years ago that if they received Outstanding then they wouldn't get a visit for several years. Then Covid happened as well, so many schools hadn't had an OFSTED for far, far too many years. Not only did this mean there was chance for standards to slip, it also meant that OFSTED then went to those schools with the agenda to "take them down a peg or two." And on top of that, as pp stated, the goalposts have shifted significantly.

OFSTED is only ever a snapshot of a moment in time in any case...far better to keep your ear to the ground, keep your eye on students from that school when you see them away from immediate supervision eg on trips, walking home from the bus etc, and most of all, go and have a look round to get a feel for the place. Preferably not on their open evenings, when it will be all shiny and unrealistically A-game impressive, but in the middle of a standard day when you get to see what it's really like there.

I’m happy, but underwhelmed with our primary school. I know ofsted is only a snapshot and I think much of what differentiates between a good or outstanding rating just boils down to paperwork. Having policies also doesn’t mean they are followed. Giving kids (and parents) a mammoth amount of homework over the holidays because the topic hasn’t been covered in school is a bit poor, but where does that show up?

Things like attendance, unless ridiculously off the scale can mean a number of things too e.g. it’s skewed by a few with long absences which could be for any number of reasons, or they’re skewed by too many people coming in when ill which ruins overall productivity for everyone. I’d have more respect for a school that helps children with a long term or fluctuating illness to put health above attendance and be realistic about how much school time a child can do, than one that is more focused on numbers for their own sake, but others may differ. Similarly, a school that had air cleaners to try to reduce illness would show (to me) a greater desire by the school to help grades, health and attendance than a school which would prefer a child take more time off by travelling to a dentist appointment after registration rather than first thing to get the tick in a box for attendance.

All schools will say they expect high standards of behaviour - that means different things though. They’re not going to say they tolerate continually disruptive or rude or violent behaviour even if they do, but they might not also say they run it like a prison if at the opposite end of the spectrum.

I like the idea of sitting outside the school and especially getting on a bus, but have to pick kid up from primary at same time. How do you get to see a school on a normal day? I thought you had to go on specific open days. What I’d really like is an honest Q and A with some kids/parents!

DS’ school is outstanding. I don’t have first hand experience of other primary schools but from seeing friends and family and their experiences with primary school, I think it deserves it. The classes are small, behaviour is excellent, there’s a wide range of extracurricular and enrichment activities, good communication between teachers and parents, a very response head. I’ve heard the SEN provision is excellent too.

I think I just picked up DD early and told them she had an appointment or something. Around 2:30ish. Then we went there , bought some bits from the shop across the school so we didn’t look like total weirdos , and when the kids were let out we just joined the crowd for the walk to the train and the train ride back .

On open evenings, depending on how big your group is and how chatty the kids showing you around are you can ask some “deeper” questions like “what do you like about the school/what’s your favourite thing/ what do you find tricky/ what’s not so great” , especially if you manage to form a bit if a connection.Watch for engagement, enthusiasm etc. in their voice and body language , not necessarily the answer. Again, I found that very informative.

Can’t say I’ve made the perfect choice (slightly less academic than I thought it would be), but overall we’re happy with it and most importantly, so is DD.

You just described a reason why I'm happy with my sons school.

He had an illness which meant him missing most of Year 3 and he actually only came back after Easter to start Year 4. Obviously a huge outlier but they were amazing and 2 of the teachers even visited him in hospital during their own time in a half term.

I adore his school so much even though many would look at the Ofsted and not consider it because of it's rating.

The small village primary school my 3 children attended was "good" for most of the time but had a spell of "requires improvement" after one particularly brutal Ofsted visit. That report made strange reading as when you got to the appendix with the parents comments you'd have been forgiven for thinking they'd accidentally attached the wrong set as it sounded like we were giving our opinions of a totally different school to the one that the inspectors had visited. Or maybe it's just that the things that mattered to us weren't the ones that they judged on. Or that they were totally inflexible in their thinking. For example there was a lot of criticism of the school's alleged poor communication with parents. The reality was that most parents spoke to their children's teachers on a daily basis so we didn't care that we didn't get vast amounts of written information, but apparently face to face conversations and actually having a relationship with the staff doesn't count. I didn't lay a lot of store by Ofsted ratings before that inspection and I certainly didn't afterwards!
That said, I think the quality of inspections does vary and I have found some interesting and useful information in the reports. I don't think the overall grading necessarily reflects reality though and I'm glad they've ditched the one word judgments. I'd say that Ofsted reports are worth reading but are just one piece ofthe jigsaw. I definitely wouldn't pick or reject a school on the Ofsted rating alone.
There is another primary school in our locality that has been rated Outstanding for as long as anyone can remember and the prices of the houses in the catchment area reflect how popular it is, but I wouldn't have sent my children there if you'd paid me. However I think my children did have a genuinely outstanding education at the school they went to, even if it didn't tick all Ofsted's boxes.

Depends when it was last ofsteded. Ours was outstanding but they hadn’t been looked at for years. I knew it wasn’t outstanding and wasn’t suprised when it was downgraded to RI.

DD's school just got outstanding (as it had previously) afew months back.I think it can be a good guide of the learning experience and opportunities a school can offer.

But the emotional welfare and SEN provision (which is what we are most interested in as parents) are not well understood or recognised by OFSTED.

That's not to say our particular school isn't good with those things (on the scale of things anyway- I think most lack in those areas somewhat) but there is sometimes discrepancies with some of it and the Headteacher whilst approachable, friendly and dedicated, is very prim and proper and good-behaviour focused.She doesn't really get SEN that well.

Our grandchild’s is and yes, it’s fantastic. His mum was in independents through her school career and it so far beats them hands down.

I came here to say this.
My sister is the deputy head of a very niche, specialist school, and she said the exact same thing - an Outstanding OFSTED rating is extremely difficult to maintain, and with the long gap between inspections of schools with an Outstanding rating, more often than not, standards slip during that time and their next inspection results in a much lower rating, which puts off prospective parents.
When looking for a high school for my nephew, she was on the lookout for schools rated as Good not Outstanding.

Yeah, one of our local primary schools was rated Outstanding, then was recently downgraded to Good because Ofsted had changed their grading criteria (which was acknowledged in Ofsted's report).

A "good" school is entirely subjective. I would have described DD1s Primary as pretty good. And DD2s as a bit poor... but they were the same school at the same time. They had completely different experiences.

For Secondary... you need to decide what's important to you and right for your child. Some parents say DDs Secondary is far too strict. I find it quite reasonable.