Is this usual practice at Doctor's surgery?

[Mumteedum]

I've just been for my first ever ECG.

It was with a male nurse and a male student nurse. When explaining what would happen, he asked if I had an underwire bra on and if so, I may have to remove it. As it was, they just stuck the stickers under my bra line.

I am really surprised that this happened. Basically laying back on the bed, with my top pulled up and two men with no warning or option to have a female present.

I was ok, but I might not have been. It's quite a vulnerable and intimate thing. Would have thought they'd be a bit more cautious and considerate.

If you are having an "intimate examination" it would be routine to offer a chaperone to be present, but the chaperone is just another person present to watch the procedure as an impartial observer who can challenge if anything inappropriate takes place - which I think the student would have been doing there. If you particularly want a chaperone of the same sex you would need to request that as they aren't going to be able to offer it by default. Some men may prefer a woman to be present and vice versa because of their own individual circumstances/history.

You should be offered a chaperone but it won’t automatically be a woman - you’d have to request that specially.

In your scenario I’d say the nurse was acting as chaperone.

Interesting. As I say, I was just a bit taken aback and surprised. Thought they'd let you what to expect perhaps. There was no opportunity to ask for a woman. There have never been male nurses at the practice for all the years I've been there so I was really surprised.

Unfortunately they don't always ask you if you're comfortable so the onus is annoyingly placed on you to speak up. I always state what procedures and checks I'm happy to be conducted by a man and which ones I'm not, but I know its not that easy for everyone.

I've experienced this from all different sides - a male technician practically having a heart attack at looking at the top of my boob with my bra on, to the point of him demanding a chaperone came in - being advised/asked if I minded a male technician doing a transvaginal scan (I didn't) - and ECGs/MRIs where male technicians just getting on with it (including rubbing my skin raw with what seemed to be a sandpaper/wet wipe hybrid beforehand) without saying anything. None of it really bothered me personally. Maybe I've had too many ECGs to remember the first, but now I would presume I was going to get my boobs out in front of a man.

@Rhiface No, I can imagine some women with trauma or even young women who are very shy would find it hard. Both the nurses were very young.

I think there could be a bit of training/experience for them to maybe explain procedure a bit more perhaps. I actually couldn't understand him because he spoke so quickly. I had to ask him to slow down/repeat. I find this these days. Young people talk incredibly quickly!

It was all ok... just a bit surprising.

I had to be topless for mine. A female nurse did it and covered me with a sheet, I wouldn’t have wanted a male nurse to do it and definitely not two males in a room.

I totally agree, I've had some trauma and never used to be comfy speaking up until I had some health stuff and was in and out of hospital. There definitely should be much more robust training around engagement with women as a whole imo

not routine, mainly because if they've put the ecg stickers below your bra line they're probably in the wrong place! (but yes, I'd have expected them to offer a chaperone, however if they didn't it would also be entirely acceptable to ask for a chaperone)

I recently had an ultrasound scan of my heart with two male technicians. It took nearly an hour with one person showing a student different things relating to a cardiac event i didn’t know i’d had.I was a bit surprised but not really bothered.

Mine was done by a male dr in the psychiatric hospital I was in.

I think the onus is on the patient to say if they are uncomfortable (rightly or wrongly).
Thing is alot of medical professionals wont consider this as they are just doing their day to day job.
I know as a nurse I always try to put people at ease and assure them that their dignity and autonomy will be respected but honestly if you've seen one set of boobs, you've seen them all!

It's normal

And also a chaperone was present.

If you weren't comfortable I think the onus was on you to speak up.

With regards to being shocked that you need to have parts of yourself exposed. I think most people know this may be necessary for an ECG.

Next time if you aren't happy speak up.

@henlake7 I'm sure but it's about how the patient feels not the Dr or nurse I think.

The male doctor I saw in gynaecology was very respectful and explained things and made sure I was happy to consent, and there was a female nurse present.

A bit of a heads up would have been good. It was a bit strange lying down with two men sticking things to my body. Id feel worse if I had to take my bra or top off.

Heads up for what?

You keep saying that.

I had a cardiac echo with a male tech. I admit I’d have preferred a woman, but not a strong enough preference to delay it.

Well that was blunt! I said I was a bit taken aback and surprised . I was ok but was not expecting this.

As I said, I have never had a male nurse at that practice in all the years I have been there. It didn't occur to me I would be told I might need to remove my bra. I thought it would be stuck to my chest, not under my boobs.

Lots of women wouldn't feel able to speak up. Women with traumatic backgrounds can freeze.

Wow @Finteq you're being a bit confrontational. Don't know why that's necessary.

A heads up that I might need to remove my bra, and that it would be with two male nurses.

Sure, and I did the same and got on with it. As I say, here to chat about what the norm is. I am curious and was surprised.

Do you mean prior to your appointment?

Cos they would have told you at the appointment why you needed to get undressed.

Yet every woman during an exam has always asked for consent and if I want a chaperone. Men don’t ask.

There was already a chaperone present here.

But not sure if op was specifically asked if she was happy to proceed with the procedure as she hasn't specified that.

Anyway

Difficult to comment on this due to lack of info.

But if you are more worried about other patients it may be worth writing down what your concerns were and feeding back to the Surgery.

If you feel you weren't given a chance to decline the procedure maybe highlight that.

If you feel he didn't explain the procedure properly before he asked you to get undressed maybe highlight that.

With regards to having a male nurse- I don't know if the usual one was off. Or when they even knew it would be a male.

So maybe just tell the nurse he needs to ask every single patient if they are happy for a male nurse. Think it's the only way to cover themselves.

Perhaps yes. He said underwire bras are a problem so some advice on this before hand and some info that you might be asked to remove your bra might be helpful yes. And perhaps if they told me this and they'd told me I was booked in with xxxx male nurse.

Would say that'd be better practice for women's dignity and issues, to have some prior warning if what is required.

Of course, an emergency is different but as a routine appointment, I don't see why they couldn't do this.

I wasn't asked if I was happy about it, no. I just walked in and was introduced to two male nurses and he asked if I was wearing an underwire bra and said I may need to remove it. I wasn't asked to undress as such, just lifted up my t shirt. They were sticking the things to me at same time on either side of me while I was lying down.

I get that you’d made some assumptions about what might be happening, and that you weren’t right with those - but I’m struggling to work out what you think was outside normal practise.

You knew what the appointment was for beforehand.
They asked for relevant information about what clothing you were wearing.
They informed you about a potential issue.
You had a chaperone present.

I’m assuming that they didn’t start taking your clothes off, and they instead asked you to do it and told you why. And given you kept your bra on, you had as much clothing as most people at the beach.

I’m guessing you got caught off guard by male nurse as you’d inadvertently stereotyped and assumed would be female and that’s left you a bit flustered.