Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Thread 27 Starmer: He's a very clever cat

999 replies

DuncinToffee · 11/07/2025 18:03

A nod to the Chief Mouser

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5361166-thread-26-starmer-cats-rebels-and-orange-chaos?page=40&reply=145615445

OP posts:
Thread gallery
89
SerendipityJane · 28/07/2025 17:46

I'm starting to feel left out on MN .... I've not posted anything overtly (or even faux unrelated) about Reform.

Maybe MNHQ need to ban me ?

Piggywaspushed · 28/07/2025 17:57

The travel to the US one did get invaded. Excuse pun.

Notonthestairs · 28/07/2025 18:33

Piggywaspushed · 28/07/2025 14:46

I mean, it's all so blindingly obvious . But if you post that on another thread, you'd be told they/you are Communists.

As you say it is blindingly obvious.

The strong risk is that Farage says we'll swop to eg the French model and doesnt mention the additional costs needed to make that happen.

So either it doesn't happen because people wont agree with further investment or the model is quietly swapped for something closer the US (although their government still spends more per capita than we do - or they did under Obama care).

And whilst the system is being moved over people will get worse treatment and I suspect funds will be funnelled to private providers and we still wont get what the country needs.

There are no easy answers.

Anyone that says otherwise is a liar.

placemats · 28/07/2025 19:04

There's never an easy answer when it comes to societal change. But to relentlessly push for it on people who may be vulnerable and are happy to be be part of a movement they have little understanding of is frightening.

'We'll give you all you wish for and a better life. Come with us. You'll be safe.". Seems to be the agenda, which given the last 14 years, is patently not true.

bombastix · 28/07/2025 19:40

I think the tough reality is that you have taxpayers paying for lesser public services. The reason the NHS and the welfare state have largely been supported for the last century is that everyone got services and those services were by and large good.

I do not think recasting the need for them based on vulnerabilities is a winner politically. All it means is that the resentment regarding tax and what you get is magnified. It is good old Tory division tactics, and shouldn’t be engaged in. Look at the cheese paring threads you get as a result.

The performance of the NHS needs to improve in perception and practice. My experiences of it in the last five years are very mixed; sometimes completely outstanding and other times actively dangerous (A&E in particular).

Labour should beware a narrative where they are always about protecting or helping specific groups. I’m not saying it doesn’t matter, because it’s right that our society does this, but it’s notable that the right wing will paint you as only being for those groups. And again and again this narrative sticks and contributes to losing elections.

Notonthestairs · 28/07/2025 22:03

The point is that all patients will be worse of if - regardless of how the NHS model might change - if there is a failure to invest.

The Kings Fund paper Iinked to above explicitly works through the options for changing the NHS models and concludes that whatever else is considered there needs to be more investment.

Satisfaction with the NHS peaked by the time Labour last left office. That was after a period of increased investment in infrastructure & equipment. We know from studies carried out by the Kings Fund (amongst others) that budgets for capital investment were re-directed to day to day spending from 2014 ish until 2019 under the Conservatives. In 2020 capital expenditure was redirected to Test and Trace.

We have fewer beds, medics and scanners etc than for example France. But then they spend more per capita on health than we do - and they've done it for a long time.

We know (again from studies) that poor productivity in the health sector is directly linked to poor equipment/facilities and yet this is often skated over.

Selling an idea that all would be well if only we moved to the same model as eg France woefully underestimates not only the initial task but the ongoing expenses.

And thats before we tackle social care.

Reeves has atleast protected capital expenditure - eventually that will pay off although I doubt that will be in time for the next election. There is the best part of a decade of investment missing. The next government could of course re-direct spending once again, leaving the service unable to make any headway and further ripening the argument to change model (again without ever mentioning the increased costs associated from that).

I dont doubt that many voters will look for a simple answer. And there will be politicians that will pretend that they have it.

I'm not even adverse to a change of model. I just hate the casual way people refer to it without acknowledging what it will mean for everyone (and most certainly tax payers).

That is of course if the new model is intended to succeed - otherwise we will have a half arsed version of an European model and nobody will be any better off.

Ultimately changing the NHS model doesnt belong in a party manifesto.

As a minimum it should require a cross party committee with a responsibility to engage with health economists. Options should be clarified and the costs need to be explicit.

Not a bloody fag packet packet analysis.

placemats · 28/07/2025 23:32

It doesn't take long to smash a service that requires public funding if you don't want to publically fund it.

The Tories had a huge amount of luck landing on their lap when the pandemic struck. My goodness the Billions spent on useless PPE, Nightingale Hospitals and Eat out to help out. Shocking waste and no apologies. Brazen use of public funds spaffed up against a wall.

placemats · 28/07/2025 23:41

To add Nigel Farage paved the way to facilitate Boris Johnson as PM in December 2019. Lest we forget.

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 08:49

Starmer is calling an emergency meeting on the situation in Gaza

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 29/07/2025 09:47

The performance of the NHS needs to improve in perception and practice.

The problem is when you are presented with a form to complain and it has 100 different responses for your gender, you rather know where their real priorities are. And it's paperwork and circle jerking, not actually treating patients.

Having had to lodge over 10 separate incidents with PALS in the past year (between my own failing health and a friends) you can't help but think if they put 1/100th the effort they put into soft-soaping you towards clinical treatment, we'd be golden.

The last complaint I made, the trust rearranged a special appointment for me, to close it. This meant a few other patients will have been bumped off their appointments. However because I was seen, my complaint is closed. PALS is not about raising systemic issues.

Somehow our years got mixed up ... the Euros should have been last year (or the election this year) ... the celebration or an international sporting win coming hot on the heels of the celebration of saying goodbye to the Tories would have set a very different national stage for slugs to slime across.

pointythings · 29/07/2025 10:05

Did anyone hear the piece on Today on the RNLI? Was excellent, NF never mentioned and yet the point came across so well. The volunteer they interviewed did a great job humanising people who cross in small boats, and made it clear that not providing help means literally leaving people to drown.

BIossomtoes · 29/07/2025 10:10

pointythings · 29/07/2025 10:05

Did anyone hear the piece on Today on the RNLI? Was excellent, NF never mentioned and yet the point came across so well. The volunteer they interviewed did a great job humanising people who cross in small boats, and made it clear that not providing help means literally leaving people to drown.

Missed that. What time was it on, pointy?

pointythings · 29/07/2025 10:12

BIossomtoes · 29/07/2025 10:10

Missed that. What time was it on, pointy?

Around 7.40 am.

cardibach · 29/07/2025 10:26

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 08:49

Starmer is calling an emergency meeting on the situation in Gaza

Meeting with whom? And when?
About time he did something.

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 10:31

cardibach · 29/07/2025 10:26

Meeting with whom? And when?
About time he did something.

With senior cabinet members at 2pm, no further details at this stage

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 10:33

Peter Kyle has upset the fragile Reform egos.

Anyone remember their recent fix it slogan?

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 29/07/2025 10:45

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 10:33

Peter Kyle has upset the fragile Reform egos.

Anyone remember their recent fix it slogan?

Nice to see Farage on the ropes over this. The biter bit, as they say.

I mean the whole OSA is an absolute pile of poo obviously. Totally useless if not counterproductive. However Farage doesn't get to say that.

Reform need a coherent and unified position on this. And they need it quick. Because all you need now is Tommy ten-email-addresses Robinson weighing into the fray bleating on about privacy.

Why would reform voters support child abuse ?

BIossomtoes · 29/07/2025 10:45

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 10:33

Peter Kyle has upset the fragile Reform egos.

Anyone remember their recent fix it slogan?

I see Farage is demanding an apology. I’ll be disgusted if he gets one.

Notonthestairs · 29/07/2025 10:48

I fail to understand why the Online Safety Bill 'erases free speech'.

it's an imperfect bit of legislation certainly - rise of use of VPNs was predicted etc. If you are determined to access porn and under age I guess you will find a way.

I just dont see the connection with free speech at all.

I do know that many US based companies are against any sort of curbs.

bombastix · 29/07/2025 10:58

I thought it was quite good given Reforms efforts on protecting children from asylum seekers who are apparently all perverts.

Yes Farage is an outrage merchant; he won’t get an apology from Kyle.

cardibach · 29/07/2025 10:59

I’m with you @Notonthestairs
It doesn’t outlaw porn or stop people it’s age appropriate for watching it (I’d argue most of it isn’t appropriate for anyone…). It just makes it a bit less likely a child will stumble across it by accident.

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 11:31

Free speech warriors don't like free speech.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 14:25

tommy ten names has fled the country again, police is wanting to speak to him about a serious assault at a train station.

OP posts:
SerendipityJane · 29/07/2025 14:39

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 14:25

tommy ten names has fled the country again, police is wanting to speak to him about a serious assault at a train station.

Presumably Elons putting him up ?

It's a shame in a way. His presence in the UK is a permanent thorn in Farage's side.

countrygirl99 · 29/07/2025 15:19

DuncinToffee · 29/07/2025 14:25

tommy ten names has fled the country again, police is wanting to speak to him about a serious assault at a train station.

Very annoyed. We were at St Pancras yesterday evening and didn't see a thing. Would have loved to give a statement.

Swipe left for the next trending thread