Thread 27 Starmer: He's a very clever cat

[DuncinToffee]

A nod to the Chief Mouser

Previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5361166-thread-26-starmer-cats-rebels-and-orange-chaos?page=40&reply=145615445

I have a tendency to believe that if you are required to pay tax, you should be allowed a say in how it's spent.

Quite how this should be translated into foreign workers (especially long term ones) is something worth debating.

I wonder how the referendum to rejoin the EU will look now ?

It's year term end. As a child of teachers and a mother to three now adult children, it always figures in my life - the summer holidays - three heatwaves and once the holidays begin it starts raining, though temperatures still lovely.

@SerendipityJane

To rejoin or not to rejoin - that is the question. Hopefully it won't be as binary as the 2016 referendum 😂

That’s my point. He could have put his foot down. That could have been in the coalition agreement. And at any point he could have broken the agreement. But he chose not to. Would it have caused chaos? Yes. But better than losing support of people who were relying on his promises.

The voting thread is hilarious. Nobody has been able to give me a reason why 16 and 17 year old are less capable of voting sensibly than an adult with learning difficulties or cognitive decline due to dementia etc. I support this change wholeheartedly.

Isn’t it just NI that begins at 16 rather than general taxation?
I’m in favour incidentally, just not sure that’s a clear argument for. No argument which tries to exclude 16/17 yr olds stands up when applied to any age group and many if the 9nes I’ve worked with would be very responsible voters. It also goes some way to equalise rights across the UK.

This is a respectful disagreement (and you should know by now how deeply cynical I am about all politicians). And a note that the published coalition agreement did not provide the scope to reject the tuition fees trap (which it clearly was).

However, the fact that mollifies me slightly, is for all the fickleness of the LibDem voters that allowed the Tories into power in 2015, the ultimate destination of that train was the slow but certain annihilation of the Tories. With the added twist of fate that it is being played out over so long that we can all savour it nice and cold.

If a LibDem apostate in 2015 had said to me "I know it looks like I am a bit thick, but trust me, even though we will have to have a Tory government and we will have to leave the EU for a bit, it will destroy the Tories forever" I would have been sceptical then and would heartily apologise now and admit it was a judgement of genius.

But as we know, that never happened.

Anyway interpreting the past is for historians and AIBU 😀

Moving forwards I'm pleased that the Lib Dems are able to move into the space the Tories abandoned. It appeals to my sense of irony.

I paid tax on my Saturday job when I did extra hours over summer and earned over the threshold.

(I got it back at the end of the tax year which was a nice present at Uni).

Quite. My mother thinks Boris Johnson is still PM so gets very confused on the rare occasions she watches the news on TV. August 2022 she had no idea that Russia had invaded Ukraine despite getting 2 daily newspapers. But she still gets to vote (if anyone tells her there's an election on and takes her to the polling station, sadly I didn't have time 😁).

Totally agree with this. Especially with all parties are seeing fracture groups.

We are no longer 2 main parties with a few bigger ones on the fringes. Even the main parties are split in their direction.

I think in the longer term that could be a good thing but it’s also prevented getting anything done the past few years.

When I went to vote in 2019, there was a gentleman in front of me who must have been 80. He had no idea what to do and had to ask the returning officers to check he was "doing it right as it's my first time".

It will nag me to the grave what it was about 2019 that made someone who had dodged at least 10 general elections, 3 referendums and countless local elections to wake up in the morning and say "my country needs my vote".

I still think the default for voting should be in person though. Postal voting makes me nervous.

It’s very funny. The irony of some of those voting age posters’ thinking!

I meant that under 16s would also pay it rather than it wouldn’t be paid (in the unlikely event they earned enough).

We are no longer 2 main parties with a few bigger ones on the fringes. Even the main parties are split in their direction.

That is feeding the drive towards electoral reform.

For reasons I really can't be arsed to remind myself of, most pundits agree than when the two main parties poll less than 50% between them, we are approaching an event horizon of some sort ....

Leftie teachers indoctrinating 16 year olds to vote Reform and it wasn't in the manifesto but if it was, it was a lie 😂

Meanwhile closer ties with Germany are being forged.

Well yes, but then someone under 16 can't marry, join the army, have sex etc. The concept of in parentis locus would surely still exist ?

Speaking of which, I am sure that this change has been rigorously thought through to ensure we don't see glaring anomalies where people can vote, but not but alcohol, or someone can vote but gets treated as a "child" for the purposes of criminal law. I'm not venturing into other threads, but I would be surprised if real considerations like that are at the fore of discussion.

I’m not sure what you mean - I was just responding to your comment about paying tax therefore deserving a vote.
As to the other points, I don’t think voting necessarily means everything else needs to change be to 16. It hasn’t in Wales and we haven’t fallen into some sort of peculiarity lack old affair

MN is hilarious today. The Labour haters are contradicting each other trying to decide how to spin this.

Starmer is eViL he is doing this to remain in power FOREVER oh, but wait, 16/ 17 year olds will vote Corbyn/Reform/Green, so it will backfire on them.

It is most amusing.

I think people are looking for excuses to justify voting Reform.

Exactly. Also, Scotland has had the policy in place for about a decade.

UK-Germany treaty (Sky News)

Keir Starmer and Friedrich Merz have signed the first UK-Germany treaty since the Second World War.

Here's what's in it:

• A pledge to "reinforce Euro-Atlantic security" and reiterate support for NATO through their defence forces;
• Frequent UK travellers will be able to use e-gates at German airports from August, with more people to become eligible later;
• Agreeing to establish a taskforce aimed at paving the way for direct train services between the two countries;
• Work together on "bilateral school and youth exchanges";
• Co-operate to tackle organised cross-border crime in an effort to end illegal migrant smuggling.

On that final point, the German parliament will pass legislation that will make storing boats and other components intended to take migrants to the UK illegal. At the moment, the legislation in Germany does not account for countries that have left the EU.

Downing Street has described it as a "significant step", and hopes it will expand over the coming years.

At the moment, the legislation in Germany does not account for countries that have left the EU.

I bet that goes unmentioned in the reporting.

Fucking hell

The data breach contained personal details of not just Afghanis, but of more than 100 British officials including spies.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c706jdlr934t?post=asset%3A9e24f612-ed83-4802-929d-d83a927d58d7#post

Hardly surprising. Cock up government was happy to bury under a super injunction gets worse when you look closer.