Where are those people's families and where is my tax going?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Nearly 50% of my income vanishes in tax and NI, and I’m seriously wondering what I’m getting in return. The streets are filthy, the Tube’s a mess of delays and breakdowns, and my child’s school can’t even fix leaking ceilings.
GP appointments? Impossible. Police follow-ups? Hit and miss.
I asked my councillor, and he said most of the money’s going to social care — mainly for elderly people and kids in care. Fine, but it makes me ask: where are their families? Why is the state carrying so much, and why does it feel like we're footing the bill for a system that’s barely working?
I’m not trying to be cruel — just frustrated. Is anyone else getting the same response from their council? Or any better answers?

It is easy to force people on PAYE to pay all their tax. However, those nice helpful people on programmes that purport to help entrepreneurs, for example, or people who have huge, successful companies, stash their money offshore and don't pay their tax. Lots of huge businesses that trade in the UK put the HQ elsewhere and don't pay their taxes. Look around your local area and see how many businesses are money laundering. The tax burden is being shouldered by the people who don't have the ability or opportunity to fiddle the books and dodge their tax. So the people who do pay, end up paying more.

Notice what is left out if these accounts? Military soending. Tax cuts for billionaires. Tax breaks for non dom immigrants. Cost if maintenance of old infrastructure. Wtc…etc..etc…

This!!!

So will you be giving up work if your parents need care as they get older?

An easy example is road mtce, cheaply done, if at all, more pot holes, more shoddy repairs...
Just come back from France, 2500 miles, 600 of cycling, the largest pot hole was about 1/2 inch deep, probably been fixed by now!!!

@Alexandra2001 Yep, this is anectodal but I know someone whose friends work on roads and they say they will do a song and dance out of a request to fix a simple pothole that could be fixed in an hour, drag things out and hire staff to stand around - and then charge the council an inflated price.

I don’t know how often that’s happening but I wouldn’t be surprised of it’s widespread.

There is SO much waste going on. I am looking into relocating. That’s for various reasons but one of them is I don’t think I’m getting my moneys worth here.

There have been a couple of posts on MN in the past few months where families with disabled children were getting really an extraordinary amount of money from the state. If I remember correctly, one was getting the equivalent of a salary of around £70k with UC, PIP, carers allowance, DLA etc.
Usually in threads like those, any comments around the money they were getting is shut down with words to the effect of 'do you want to swap places with me?'
No I wouldn't clearly.
But it cannot be right - whatever the circumstances - for someone to be paid that much from the state? These were fir children who were out at school mist of the day.
Yes, I realise parenting a disabled child is harder, more expensive, more demanding and understand why it may not be possible to hold down a good job or indeed any job if you are constantly on call.
But £70k equivalent??

You try and speak about this and well meaning people will tell you the daily mail has fooled you and this doesn’t happen etc - but it does. The reasons for it are multi-faceted but it does happen. I grew up in a working class area of west coast Scotland and I know many generations of these people who live on benefits when they are able to work.

I don’t think it’s necessarily the main issue sucking up our taxes, but it’s one more contributor and doesn’t create a good feeling among people knowing they’re getting up to work and their neighbour is doing nothing but walking away with the same or more than them.

The ones at the top don’t set a very good example either. Look at all the politicians raking it in when they leave politics in exchange for giving contracts to their clueless mates during Covid.

All over there’s too many people on the edges screwing over what probably is the majority -albeit a shrinking majority.

i have never met a heroin addicted lady before

Yes, I realise parenting a disabled child is harder, more expensive, more demanding and understand why it may not be possible to hold down a good job or indeed any job if you are constantly on call.
But £70k equivalent??

Research on minimum income to achieve a basic standard of living (Rowntree Trust) shows that a couple with two children and no disabilities need around £64,000 in household income. Add in additional costs of disabilities and £70,000 isn’t far off the mark. It’s rare for both parents of disabled children to be able to work full time - part of the additional costs of disability includes the loss of working income for parent carers.

Informal carers save the country millions in care costs, much more than the £70k you’ve quoted. So, we could cut disability benefits and force carers back to work - but filling the gap they leave isn’t going to be cheaper. A full time specialist care placement for a child with complex needs can easily cost upwards of £4k a week.

The problem is that wages haven’t increased in line with cost of living so the politics of envy creep in.

I think a lot of us don't feel comfortable with that at all. 🙄

loads of reasons kids are taken into care which costs thousands- the cost of emergency foster care is extortionate and then add to that the secure foster care for children who have to be kept in secure accommodation it is unbelievable.

Kids are likely to be taken into care for the following:
abuse physical/ sexual
risk of violence (so parents being active gang members / engaging in dv relationships and not leaving)
parents being unable to manage the risk of the child to them selves or others:
victims of exploitation criminal / sexual
being a risk to others them selves
neglect due to drugs / drink / mh / sever learning difficulties

the cost of the roads / pavements and maitaince of public buildings cripples councils as the population is growing

to maintain and up keep council houses / cost of default rent / trashed and abandoned houses costs a lot of money too

I've certainly seen people here on MN argue it isn't their responsibility, what the outcomes were I have no idea.

I actually think education is so messed up that it can't be fixed, because we have really lost sight of what it's for, and what it means to be educated. The conflating of education with childcare plays into that. Many schools are terrible places imo.

People are allowed I think, around £23k and the state will step in to help with funding social care. £23k!!! I would lower it to £5k, use it all first bar enough for a funeral before looking to others to chip in.
MIL who worked five years her whole life gets over £400 non means tested AA per month. She’s in a car home yet has assets of around half a million!!

i have recently seen the earnings of the senior management team of a small private care home. I nearly fell off my chair when I realised that the top 3 of them were taking home over a million a year.

But I would never have children whilst a heroin addict and op has a point it must cost an insane amount when these ladies are on their tenth child taken straight into foster care at birth who sadly may have some serious health or learning disabilities from drug exposure in utero

You honestly think someone addicted to drugs (usually not heroin interestingly enough) has the ability to think through the consequences of having children? She may be coerced or forced to have sex, likely isn’t getting regular health care much less contraception. Once on child is removed there’s next to no support to process that loss and look at lifestyle changes, so she gets pregnant again, and again hoping this time it’ll be different. And sometimes it is and the mum is able to parent safely with support.

The experiences of these women is horrific, their addiction almost always has its roots in significant childhood trauma that went un-acknowledged and untreated. The mechanisms of addiction are also often traumatising and then they lose multiple children to “the system”. And still don’t get any support, but lots of judgement.

Project Prevention - Wikipedia

Read an Ofsted report for a special school in your area. I did and discovered that one school that takes in only LA funded children gets £11MILLION a year. 1 school. Times that by the number of special schools and that’s where much is going.

interestingly I assumed ‘adult social care’ meant mostly old people, but it doesn’t. It mostly means young disabled.

im not stating an opinion, just explaining.

Yes it’s a preventative programme and there are other much better programmes that don’t try to bribe women to lose their fertility. But councils need to be able to afford staff trained and able to run them, the training isn’t cheap and the programme takes time. In 32 local authorities in Scotland I can count on one hand those actively offering a structured programme of support to mums who lose their children to the care system. The resources simply aren’t there.

then people need to campaign for a different system than capitalism because if all workers were paid eg basic 30k etc

She will be paying her own fees and around 50 % of the fees of one state funded resident in the same home. The care home will be claiming any attendance allowance and her state pension. She will still be paying tax on her pension(s) at whatever rate is due. At between 5K and 7K a month her money will soon go. She will still pay for her own toiletries, hair cuts, chiropody etc.

YANBU, OP.

Me and DP pay £72k each per year on tax and NI.

Plus capital gains tax last year of £480k when DP sold his business.

Fucking eye-watering and immensely frustrating considering what we get in return, while others live off the state and families abandon their older folks to tax-payers.

They will make her sell her house, or put a charge on it until after she dies. I really don't resent self funding elderly people as much as tax evaders.

the thing i put on here is cheaper than training

That’s interesting, but using the Rowntree Trust’s figures, two thirds of UK households aren’t meeting basic income requirements in that case. The average household income in the UK is £37K.

Lots of people game the system. We were trying to find an afterschool nanny. I was shocked by how many women came and asked first question - will you pay in cash and refused blank to work unless paid in cash. Same with cleaners, builders, etc. So they can and do work, just tell the system they are too weak/seek to work.