Where are those people's families and where is my tax going?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Nearly 50% of my income vanishes in tax and NI, and I’m seriously wondering what I’m getting in return. The streets are filthy, the Tube’s a mess of delays and breakdowns, and my child’s school can’t even fix leaking ceilings.
GP appointments? Impossible. Police follow-ups? Hit and miss.
I asked my councillor, and he said most of the money’s going to social care — mainly for elderly people and kids in care. Fine, but it makes me ask: where are their families? Why is the state carrying so much, and why does it feel like we're footing the bill for a system that’s barely working?
I’m not trying to be cruel — just frustrated. Is anyone else getting the same response from their council? Or any better answers?

You're quite right.

I actually don’t agree. Mismanagement is rife in care homes, the amount of money going into shareholders as pure profit… it’s criminal. It should be nationalised and not-for-profit. People are paying to cover the fees of those who can’t afford to pay, and so much of what they pay is pure profit for the owners. That’s my issue with homes being sold to pay for it. Their homes and sold to give someone else a big payout.

It wouldn't be called "Personwives" would it? Because the Wife part is referencing the person, the house is the place. So it would be "HouseSpouse" or "Homeperson" more likely.

Tbf, the pp said 24/25 so that's on me. I just misread it for 25/26 - or I'm getting old and doing that thing when you are surprised the years have shifted again.

It really is.
I am not a pensioner but have always been unable to work due to disability and so have definitely "taken out more than I have put in". My council's social care budget pays for me to have support workers for 11 hours a week.
If you'd like to swap your income and tax burden with my disabilities and limited daily life, OP, please feel free.

When DH was a SAHD and I was working we called him a HouseSpouse. I like the rhyming.

I would certainly consider it, unlike the poster I was replying to who clearly doesn’t consider it to be his or her concern whatsoever. It’s academic for me as unfortunately both my parents are dead, my dad before he even reached old age, and my mum nearly 3 years after being diagnosed the stage 4 cancer at age 80. I wasn’t working when that happened so was able to accompany her to her appointments and stay with her when needed, but she could afford her owner carer for washing etc. I did get a full time job some time later but between me, my singling who also worked full time, and 2 of my mum’s sisters, we were able to help out and cover everything.

My PILs don’t/didn’t (FIL is also now dead) live in or even near London so that’s a different challenge but in past past DH and I did look at houses that could have a Granny flat for FIL to live in as he knew and liked London.

I am not saying that everyone should drop everything to look after their parents, nor that a non-specialist could provide the right care. But I am challenging that poster’s position that we shouldn’t even think it has anything to do with us.

We also need to think about the ramifications of not living in closer communities anymore. I would certainly consider living closer to DD as and when she settles down somewhere if that’s not in or near London - both to help her if she becomes a mother, and so she doesn’t have to feel she needs to uproot herself to help me or DH if necessary. She’s watched us do a lot of our ageing parents and knows that’s what you do.

I wish we did live closer to MIL (DD’s only surviving GP) but unfortunately she moved herself to a village that’s impossible to get to on public transport and can be up to a 6 hour round trip. But DH will still make the effort to go and see her regularly, though it would be lovely if we could just pop round for a cuppa or to help her with the garden etc whenever.

I too pay a lot of money in tax. But I am healthy, housed and capable. I do not mind for a second my money going towards support for people in worse situations than me. Would you swap your high taxes for being too disabled to work or growing up in the care system?
Private companies profiting off what should be public services, however, can go straight to hell.

I work on an LD team. We have one person who costs £1.2million per year. Many others c£1million. It’s eye watering.

I think you make a good point about social media making people compare up. That said, most of social media is completely fabricated for people to portray a life they don't actually have. The effect is the same though. That and Tony Blair's government pushing the idea that everyone should have a degree. I agree that everyone should have the chance to strive for one, but they should not be an entitlement. This translated to other areas of society too.

I know what you mean about successive governments pandering to the wealthy, however that is where most of the tax revenue is generated, so they have to to a certain extent.

That fact does not stop me being frustrated with their seeming inability to run a bath let alone a country. It is all about soundbites and image these days as opposed to substance.

I don't mind the private nursing homes as the local authorities force them to accept a certain number of inmates clients at local authority rates. I think this provides a better level of service than the old council run homes that smelt of piss and cabbage water.

Exactly like we all have those thoughts 'why would you have more kids if your others are in care' etc but ultimately we cannot stop people from reproducing, even if it's the logical thing? Sounds so naive.

Yet when the government tries to reduce the welfare bill everyone kicks off. They should have stuck by it as things really need to change and there’s a lot of money spent on benefits for people who really shouldn’t get it - lower level stuff, not chronic conditions and long term disability etc.

I would be interested to hear OP's strategy for preventing reproduction by those she considers unfit to breed, and exactly who she might choose for this treatment.

People do not always behave rationally and, unfortunate though this is , I am happy for my taxes to be used to support the fruits of these irrational behaviours. We cannot have the sins of the father visited on the children.

But ... like others I am not happy about the profits that go to companies providing care. But .... if Starmer set about taking all these care companies into government management would people applaud this or throw their hands up in horror? I would applaud.

There is a huge amount of tax money going to social care, and while that exists in its present form then families will of course want to claim it rather than look after their relatives themselves. People can be very selfish and entitled. On Woman's Hour recently they were interviewing families who had kids on SEN pathways, lots of whinging about the taxi service not being good enough, moaning that their child needed more than one dedicated person helping them at school etc etc. One actually said the words, mid whinge about something not being paid for by the council, 'we actually had to spend our own money ...' No disrespect to those in genuine need, but I'm sure many COULD do more to help their family members, but have a 'why should I' attitude.

If the majority of society operated under a more purely capitalist system, it could result in conditions resembling those of the Victorian era.

But what moves and levers do you think are available to prevent this outcome?

I'm failing to see any now beyond false hope.

They try to reduce it by cutting benefits to individuals, usually the most vulnerable. There should be a total overhaul of how the other money sinks, sorting out care homes and instead of all that profit going to individuals, it should be nationalised with no profits and huge ballooning salaries.

I work in a specialist school which is funded by the LA. It costs around £40k per child per year to send a kid to our school. The families can't afford this but it's the only way these kids can have a fair education. Mainstream school doesn't work so are you suggesting these parents should home educate? Therefore stop working and have to rely on benefits?

A lot of local authority money goes in temporary housing for families. The advice here is wait until your landlord evicts you and then go the the council. Many
people have to do that as private rents have risen as property in concentrated in hands of private
developers and sale of council houses was not used to fund new building.

It’s a huge cost and is starting to bankrupt councils.

it why bins will be emptied less, libraries close etc.

Sadly those with dysfunctional lives tend to have more children, have children younger than average, have children with useless fathers, have multiple fathers to their children, often don't stay in relationships and have little to no support with their children. There's no test to say someone is fit to be a parent and never will be.

Well the obvious answer was "why would abusive parents even breed" probably because they didnt know they would be abusive! Some parents cant cope/are on drugs /drink whatever.There was a little girl who fell off her balcony recently while the mum was stoned .Generally mostDC are in care for similar reasons

Nicely spotted @crumblingschools ! I think we’ve all fallen for @AmusedTaupePlayer being deliberately goady.

My old school had shitty infrastructure, not my child's

State pension age has risen so people who might otherwise have retired earlier and be able to care for elderly relatives can no longer do this.
More people getting divorced mean that women ( who do the bulk of the caring) often have to remortgage and can't retire early.
People living a lot longer. You now have people in their late sixties/ early seventies trying to care for parents in their nineties and they have health issues of their own. I visit a huge number of elderly people as part of my job completing forms etc for elderly people. I have been so shocked recently by how many of them have lost adult children, one poor lady recently had lost both her sons. In many cases this leaves them totally alone. We have increasing numbers of sick adults who cannot look after themselves let alone ageing parents !
Many children move away from where they grew up. Older people have children but they are hundreds of miles away and can't provide care on a daily or weekly basis. Many have adult kids living abroad. I recently had a case where daughter was living in Dubai and both elderly parents needing care which was all having to be dealt with by adult social care.
It is amazing the number of people who have no-one.

I agree, the problem is that social care is difficult work and poorly paid work, very few people want to do it so there is a shortage of workers.