Scottish independence

[Charliebear322]

Can someone explain to me like I’m stupid why Scotland can’t have independence from England

Yes, because Independence would mean an SNP dictatorship in perpetuity. 🙄

Because we voted on it !

Given it would be the SNP dealing with the "divorce" settlement and their inability to understand basic maths it would leave Scotland living with the SNP shit show legacy so yes.

I find the financial illiteracy depressing. At its most basic, Scotland is a land of 5.5 million people, give or take. A tiny percentage of those - 6-8 per cent ish - are higher tax rate payers only ( may be bit higher now with Scottish tax rates). A good proportion of those work for the state or state supported entities (therefore not net income generating). Less than half of all Scots pay income tax at all (age and youth and small population).

Greater London alone has about 10 million people. The south east is a powerhouse for tax receipts.

How will independent Scotland replace the Barnett Formula income? It can’t - it can increase taxes to levels that will drive individuals and business out or it can make swinging cuts. Probably both. The idea that the current administration have the skills or desire to create a business friendly booming economy in a short timescale is laughable.

I understand the fanatics who want independence even if it means living in a much poorer country - just be honest about it. I dont. I don’t think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages especially for the poor. I won’t suffer - like many taxpayers I can move to and work in England as easy as here taking my tax bill with me.

If there is clearly public and political will for it there should be another referendum.

Id say the same about rejoining the union (if the union would accept a return!).

Same about the EU - people wanted out but if there’s strong evidence that’s no longer the case (not sure we’re there yet) we should have a referendum on rejoining.

Circumstances and public opinion change. The fact we have general elections every few years not “once in a generation” reflects this.

However whether Scottish independence is a good idea is another question. I can be convinced either way, depending on how convincing the person talking to me is!

Why don’t you provide example and reason?

Who would run an independent Scotland if not the SNP?

The majority of Scottish voters just let the SNP crazies run off at the mouth.. then we vote no to independence.
The SNP are (not so) slowly and surely ruining Scotland.. they are grossly incompetent and when all else fails .. they just lie through their teeth.
The silent majority of Scotland do not want independence and did not want Brexit.

We had a “once in a generation “referendum and the majority voted No, thankfully!

OTOH wasn’t it the Netherlands who held a referendum on the EU Maastricht treaty, and simply held a second referendum when the population voted the ‘wrong way’ first time around?

The 1992 and 1993 Danish referendums on the Maastricht treaty.

The 2001 and 2002 referendums in Ireland about ratifying the Nice treaty.

The 2008 and 2009 referendums in Ireland regarding the Lisbon treaty.

Because we don’t want it.

(And because we know it winds some people in England right up, which gives us great satisfaction 🤭)

@EvelynBeatrice excellent post. I’m a Scot living in the North of England, and I agree re the financial benefits of Scotland remaining in the union.

So why were these repeated?

The conditions are not favourable to the indy cause. Love or loathe him, Alec Salmond was a political colossus who managed levels of engagement the likes of Swinney could only dream about. Sturgeon was widely supported until she wasn't.

David Cameron was in power, with Boris in the wings during the last lot. We now have a Labour government in Westminster.

The UK government was the only thing that stopped the farcical and loathed GRR bill and proved themselves to be the adults in the room.

I voted no, but with sympathy to some of the yes arguments. Now I'm a hell no over my dead body, because on its own Scotland can't seem to elect leaders who will protect women and girls. I will never forget how far down the path of insanity they were prepared to go.

I dare say there are financial arguments too, oil price etc but I am not well versed on that.

Latest two opinion polls have "YES" in the lead. But it's still pretty neck & neck.

Independence or not, the fact is that around 50% of Scots & 45% of Northern Irish give or take 5% in each case do not support the Union. If not Scottish Independence & Irish Re-unification then something else constitutionally MUST change. The status-quo is dead.

Maximum Devolution? Eg All VAT revenue remains in the country where it originated & not given to Westminster. Or the ability to borrow. And Barnett goes.

I'm voting SNP/SNP in 2026 & YES in any Indy Poll. Why? Johnson, Truss, Mogg & the entire Tory ERG Crew. Plus England's increasingly right wing swing.

Because there was a referendum and the majority of people voted to remain within a successful union that is over 300 years old and which came about because Scotland approached England and asked for it. We already had the same monarch and a lot of family and trade connections. It made sense and it still makes sense.

Giving the current lot the ability to borrow would be an absolute disaster - they’re utterly inept financially.

Because they didn't want it.

Because we have seen the mess the SNP make and don’t want them taking over. SNP run Glasgow city council biggest city in Scotland are making a mess of it, heavily influenced by Greens, building cycle lanes with no cyclists costing millions while rats run about in the city and cleansing programmes are slashed.
Beautiful buildings are left to rot or “ accidentally “ go on fire by greedy owners.
We voted no and meant it.

Yes the Union was voluntary (England saving Scotland from financial ruin following disastrous attempt at overseas colony) and in the referendum the people voted no to independence and yes to continuing the Union.

What do you mean by the Scottish are a 'Soverign people' @XDownwiththissortofthingX?

Utter nonsense.

The Scottish Exchequer had no debt in 1707 and was returning an annual surplus.

I think the Scots should have the opportunity for another vote if they want one - Brexit was a game changer.

But I don’t think the economics stacks up for independence. As a pp said it’s a very small population with few higher rate tax payers (and those are likely to be able to move potentially over the border).

Many people in Scotland would prefer the SNP actually sort stuff out rather then passing more money up the wall!

Their grasp on basic economics and finances is woeful. Their PR team have worked their socks off last few years.

And yes many people who pay higher taxes can leave.

They can. They just chose not to in their referendum, by quite a large margin. Funny that only the Scottish got a choice in that. The English have never been asked if they want independence from Scotland. That vote would be interesting.