can my daughter get her money back? £200 Holding fee for room rental.

[jasdf]

my daughter went to view a room yesterday. Loved it. Rental agent (private, his own company) wanted £200 holding fee, to ensure he doesn’t show it to anyone else. She paid it as she loved it so much. £1,000 a month to rent a room. (I know, I know we’re in the south east and this is an expensive city shes renting in)

After paying the holding fee, she got a contract which states no overnight guests. She queried it and the guy said no overnight guests. He then said they could stay twice a month only. My daughter has a long term partner and she was worried about this rule, so said she wasn’t interested in the room anymore.

The rental agent said that he’s been doing his job for over 20 years and it’s standard that you can’t have overnight guests. Seriously? Is that true? You can pay £1,000 a month to rent a room and not have an overnight guest? Her current landlord is selling the house she’s in, but he’s never had an issue with guests. She’s now £200 down which the rental agent is saying he won’t refund in full. He’s offered to give half
back. Is this fair or taking the piss?

thank you. That’s really interesting. Especially this bit:

Most assured shorthold tenants can have overnight visitors. If your agreement says that you cannot have guests, that could be what is called an unfair term.

Not necessarily relevant here though, when you are renting just a room, rather than the entire property, you do not have exclusive possession and hence they can & do often say no overnight guests.

Well that’s not really the same thing is it. And a lot of properties have restrictions on sub letting and the total number of people allowed to live at the address.

He might have had a ‘bitter experience’ but that’s irrelevant. It’s not for him to dictate that tenants can only have guests to stay a couple of times a month, unless he lives there and is looking to let to a lodger. I’m sure it contradicts ‘right to enjoyment’ or something like that.

Yes there are nuances. Quiet enjoyment in your own rented property is quite different to renting a room.

Not saying your DD is wrong to want to have overnight guest, but the landlord isn't necessarily wrong either, and she'd be lucky if some weirdo in her house was bringing in an even bigger weirdo overnight (for example) and the landlord came down strong on that on her behalf, so it works both ways and can also potentially protect her.

I think she’s honestly veering towards coming back here for a couple of years to save enough to buy a place. I don’t blame her at all!

No, it doesn’t because when you are only renting a room you do not have exclusive possession.

It’s a very common rule, and protects everyone. OP’s daughter would be very grateful of it if she paid £1000 to rent a room and someone in another room had 3 mates staying over every night using the bathrooms etc, or had a weirdo staying who made her feel unsafe.

It’s a really common clause if you are renting a room from the home owner who also lives there. And a sensible one too. So many people I know take the piss and practically their other half in rent free

Of course her partner can’t stay over when she’s renting a room in a shared house, why did she think he could?
It’s for rent to a single person, not a couple.
If everyone did that it would double the number of residents in the house, causing all sorts of issues.

This is so ridiculous I don’t even know where to start. It’s really, really NOT common at all for tenants sharing a house to have a ban on having overnight guests (most I’ve seen in the way of this is something like, need to get other resident’s agreement, notify landlord for stays longer than two days) But not an outright ban written into the contract. It’s not like she’s moving in to a boarding house. I lived in a house share with other women for four years, we all had people over to stay- boyfriends at times yes but friends or family too when visiting. We were thankfully all respectful of each other and no one took the piss. To be told you absolutely couldn’t have this would be so infantilising. The only time this would be an acceptable clause is if you are renting as a lodger and shared the space with the homeowner.

Well, it’s a fairly common contract clause so you can huff and puff all you please 😁
The option to rent an actual double room is always available.

I've been on both sides when renting a room in shared houses - firstly being the one with the partner and then when I was single again and one of my housemates had a partner.

In all honesty it's sensible and normal to limit overnight stays and your dd has been lucky so far to be able to have her partner stay freely. It caused issues both times with me - effectively you have a stranger staying regularly at the house at random and unpredictable times, using amenities e.g. heating, water for a shower, and generally taking up space. I remember wanting to watch TV in the shared lounge but feeling like a spare part because my housemate and her bf were curled up on the sofa. Or waiting my turn to cook a meal whilst they were both in the kitchen cooking for two. It's no big deal once in a while but when it's a few times a week frustrations build up. No doubt in hindsight I annoyed my housemates at the time with my own partner.

I didn’t say anything about room size, just that it really isn’t a common contract clause, at all. Most rooms to rent in a shared house are double rooms these days.

Double room, in adverts, refers to the size. Is it big enough to fit a double bed? Yes? Well then it's a double room. The vast majority are for single occupancy. On Spareroom you can filter by those available to couples - it's a tiny percentage.

You can 'yeah but this happened' it doesn't matter she chose not to take the room so forfeits the money

In all honesty it's sensible and normal to limit overnight stays and your dd has been lucky so far to be able to have her partner stay freely. It caused issues both times with me - effectively you have a stranger staying regularly at the house at random and unpredictable times, using amenities e.g. heating, water for a shower, and generally taking up space. I remember wanting to watch TV in the shared lounge but feeling like a spare part because my housemate and her bf were curled up on the sofa. Or waiting my turn to cook a meal whilst they were both in the kitchen cooking for two. It's no big deal once in a while but when it's a few times a week frustrations build up.

all of this.

If it is a joint tenancy, with joint and several liability, it’s up to the tenants to agree between them, but if it’s an HMO, where tenants may barely know each other, it makes sense to have specific ground rules in place.

If it’s a house share she needs to be mindful about how often he stays over. It’s really annoying when you’re paying 1/6 of the water, gas and electricity when there are ‘extras’ who use the electricity for free who are there for most of the week.

if they’re spending most nights together why not live together?

I would just move in and ignore the rule. Unless one of the other tenants dob her in, the landlord is going to have no idea if she has overnight guests or not.

I really don’t understand what point you’re trying to make. I know what a double room is. I know what a single room is. I know how to filter these on spare room as if that’s got anything to do with the price of fish. I’m just telling you that in all my years of house sharing, I never encountered the banning of overnight guests as a contractual clause. It’s always just a case of being mindful and respectful that you are all sharing space. ‘Single occupancy’ refers to the person living there and paying rent, it doesn’t mean they can never have anyone staying over for the odd night or visit.

You said that nearly all rooms are double rooms, presumably making the point that they are intended for sharing, when that certainly isn't the case.

I agree, prohibition of overnight guests is not something I've ever included in my contracts. But where people take the piss to the point where the other house mates complain, then I would have words and eventually issue a Section 21. With Section 21 no longer being an option very soon then I think I will need to get something in the contract.

Ok, I think we’ve just got our wires crossed 🤷🏻‍♀️

Yes it does sometimes happen that people practically move their other half in, I’ve encountered this once- he actually just became a tenant and started paying rent so in a way we did all benefit as our rent became less. But there’s a lot of room for piss taking if not everyone is on board.

Pretty much everywhere I’ve ever rented a room says no overnight/ minimal overnight guests otherwise someone moves in their ( not fully but stays a lot) boyfriend and ruins the whole vibe. I’d rather not live with couples.

If it is a room in a shared house, and there are others living there, it would be unfair for each tenant to have regular overnight guests.

Essentially each single person could in fact be a couple, doubling the use of everything in the property. So I can see that being a clause in a tenancy for an individual room.

I think a holding deposit seems just that, if you don't want the room anymore you still blocked off it's availability to someone else for a period of time so I doubt you'd get it back.

I think it is more down to the others in the house and if they'll be alright with there being extra people around. Even if it's not overnight, a shared kitchen or living room or even bathroom that's being used by a non resident and potential stranger to the others wouldn't be very nice, would it? If it's happening on a regular.

Could she not get a bedsit, self contained? Or even move in with partner?

Legally - After paying the holding fee, she got a contract so, she couldn't have seen the contract BEFORE paying - therefore could argue unfair contract terms and threaten with small claims and publicity.

But it’s not an unfair contract term in the legal sense, she just doesn’t happen to like it.