Passport application has failed

[TodaysFishIsTroutALaCreme]

My friends passport application has failed due to me not meeting the requirements as a counter signatory.

Thing is, I do have a profession that is on the list...almost. I have a profession that is very close to one of the ones listed but I have Registered in my title as I am governed by a professional body. I've signed loads of passports for people. My passport is in date etc so I don't know why it has failed. My friend doesn't really know anyone else who can countersign it for her and we go on holiday in 3.5 weeks. (She was a last minute addition to our booking)

Had this happened to anyone else and us there anything I can do to help? I'm going to be calling the passport office but I doubt they will speak to me.

Tia

They added some professions that can sign which is still useless for many but removed the one that would have been accessible to most people - their doctor.
So it's pretending to make things more accessible or equal while making it more difficult for people who don't operate in middle class circles or simply in any circles to get a passport. Crims have their systems well set up with "professionals" to help bwho sign.
So us honest plebs and serfs not allowed one unless we have a master authorise it. There must be ways of verifying ones identity in this day and age that doesn't require your this level of dependency akin to serfdom for you.
What happened to data protection.
And it's such a humiliating process.

@Ifpicklesweretickles I don't even know who my GP is at the moment. Im registered with a medical centre, but rare to actually see a doctor, lucky if I get an appointment to see a nurse. If I do see a GP it is never the same person.

Not like when I was a child and had a family doctor, who I saw throughout my childhood and until I moved away.

Not much point a GP saying they know you, when chances are they don't!

@Ifpicklesweretickles - I’ll admit to being in a ‘middle class profession’ (if we’re using the definition of being able to countersign passports) but there are good reasons why GPs don’t sign anymore: they are highly unlikely to know patients by sight / be able to verify they are who they say they are. And language like ‘humiliating’, ‘serfs’ etc seem a bit strong!

I’ve always assumed the need for a ‘profession’ was so that there could be a consequence if you are part of a criminal enterprise countersigning passports for the filthy lucre - you could be struck off.

At least these days you don’t have to squeeze that long declaration and your signature on to the back of a tiny passport photo …

There must be a regular gp in there, at least one. They don't need to know your favourite tv show or what you have for breakfast, they are just verifying your body using your name.

you have your nhs number with them and would have brought your paperwork in the past to register so its as reliable as it gets.
Much better than putting responsibility on a random person or trusting some random to "verify" your identity which is wrong for endless reasons.

The excuse Home Office has isn't what you are saying, they cancelled it to relieve pressure on GPs. Which was a private and chargeable service so this is ridiculous.

And perhaps in your unlikely circumstances where they haven't actually met you and you don't know who they are it wouldn't have been an option for you but it would have been for others

The change was just hypocrisy and lip service. I don't know why you feel the need to plaj devils advocate.

@Ifpicklesweretickles schools ask parents not to ask teachers. It’s quite common for some professions to do this, and only sign for people they know separate to any work they may do for them

No it doesn't make sense that they don't know you and if they dont they'd say no.

Yes if you are denied the right to travel or to get a job because you don't have a passport because you are reliant on knowing someone important enough and their goodwill so it's pretty much serfdom. Being treated as if you are a slave and being dependant on another. Not your own person.

They absolutely should verify it but not by using this method that's prone to complete abuse by those with bad intentions, not in this day and age of personal freedom and data protection.

Why the actual hell do you think we need to give some random professionals friends or neighbours all the personal data information on our children, to get their passports, for example? Or stalk people till they agree to it? Nobody owns another and nobody should be reliant on another for anything to exist or to travel.

@Ifpicklesweretickles

”Why the actual hell do you think we need to give some random "professionals" all the personal data information on our children, for example? Nobody owns another and nobody should be reliant on another for anything to exist or to travel.”

The person signing is not or shouldn’t be a ‘random professional’. They’re someone who has known the child or their parent for at least 2 years at least well enough to verify who they are. My understanding is that point of saying it can’t be a GP unless they know you in a personal capacity is so that it’s not being signed by a ‘random professional’.

@Ifpicklesweretickles that's the whole point, they shouldn't be a random. They should know you well

Yep, this 100%
the “professional” is actually meant to personally know you well. Not a stranger.

The point of this thread is that many people don't have anyone close like this.
And if they did, relying on another person is just wrong and thr concept restricts one's freedom to travel, for example.
If you are able to buy and sell houses, change ownership, take out massive loans without ever meeting anyone including your solicitor in person, the "brains" in the home office must be able to find ways to verify peoples identity without using methods from the serfdom and caste systems which this one is. They can still keep this option if it works for them, and for some people it will, but there needs to be other options for those people who don't have access to middle class professionals or who for a myriad of other reasons don't have anyone to act as their master.
So don't be ridiculous.

Missing the point smarty pants

So why on these passport threads are people told to go and ask at the corner shop or the local pub or some other random that may be a business owner, they won't know you well. It's a sort of discrimination towards those that don't move in the right circles. Obviously on very middle class MN not many see it is a problem

But people like hairdressers, or beauty therapists, or Brown Owl can sign. Or your mate’s brother who is a self employed plumber. Or your manager at work. Or even your manager from your previous job. Or the mum at school who works for the council doing admin. Your mum’s retired friend who was a nurse. The local vicar. You’d have to live on the moon to genuinely not to know anyone.

It doesn’t have to be a barrister or a Dr.

I've had this and I think it was because I supplied my friend's married name when her email and her professional registration were in her maiden name. We tried again and it went through fine.

At least 3 posters said they shouldn't be a random - unless they are a close friend, of course, they are fairly "random". And why should even a close friend have access to very personal details - for instance for kids they ask the area where they were born, the dates, all full names etc.

You seem to be misunderstanding the point.

So if you dont know anyone like that, then what? Why should I for example be finding out if my neighbour is.qualified and has a good enough job, and start approaching some and be giving them my own personal information and my that of my kids? Why is that neighbour is obliged to find their passport, trusted to "verify" my kids and mine personal details, keep them safe, and pass their own personal information on to the passport office? Do you not see how this is wrong?

See above why not.

Why yes? What about people fleeing abuse? People whose parents are dead or who haven't lived 2 years where they are now, people who have social anxiety or who simply aren't takers and feel awkward asking for this massive favour?

The point is why should we depend on another to exercise our right to travel or work to support ourselves, basically the right to be free? You can take a massive loan out without any of this, so how come the home office haven't figured out a better way to verify someone's identity? Lazy public service that discriminates against people who aren't middle class.

And do you not see how this is open to abuse especially in some circles?

it's not my problem, i was just replying.

Those aren't acceptable as countersignatories, you are spiuting musinformation.

Nor should we be giving those random people our personal details.

And many people aren't into any of those things anyway and wouldn't know anyone like that.

So many support this old shite that you'd probably see nothing wrong with a guardianship system either.

What are you on about? Company Directors, which many small business owners are, can sign. Your manager can sign. Nurses can sign. Local council employees can sign. People retired from those things can sign. Vicars are on the list. Brown Owls can sign as a person of good standing.

And if they know you then they already know your name, address, your face etc. I’ve had to give more personal info to the chiropodist than I gave to the passport office.

Happened to me..same person tried again and it worked.

@Endiof the assumption is that you know these people. not that you just pop into any old corner shop or pub and ask the owner.

But you may have a friend who runs a shop, pub etc

It's like you have some skin in this elitist classist practice or you are on the windup. Why should someone be looking for plumbers registered as company directors to get a passport. Absolutely ridiculous.

Many people don't know anyone like this closely as has been said multiple times upthread. So getting random people to sign who don't actually know you that well is no way superior or more convenient than having it done by your doctor, for example, which was a private service and they actually knew your identify since you had to prove it when registering. It's still bad and classist but would have been more accessible and they removed that option anyway. It was removed to relieve pressure on GPs, no other reason.

@Ifpicklesweretickles doctor is the least accessible surely

You can barely get to see one - and I don't think they do this anymore as it's too much hassle for them, on top of everything else they have to do.

Tell her to pay her GP to do it

My application got rejected when my GP wasn't accepted. Had to get a teacher friend to sign and travel miles to get an emergency appointment. Had a nice day out, but spent a fortune. Cost less than cancelling the holiday though!

They dont do it now