"He's a great Dad"...no he isn't.

[CrowSinger]

That line is on so many posts that I sometimes think to myself that they must all have been written by AI. It is always in a post where the "great" dad is manifestly abusive.

"He's beats me, calls me a fat ugly c*nt in front of the children, he punches walls/me, he puts his hands around my throat, the children are terrified of him and have wet themselves when he's got angry, I'm not given any money and all my clothes have holes in, he cheats on me regularly and gives me STIs because he doesn't take no for an answer with sex, he's isolated me from all my family and friends...but he's a great dad".

WHY do women say this??? Has anyone come out of an abusive relationship and seen the light and realised that he was a piece of shit, not a great dad? What would have made you see it sooner?

Well this is politely, completely delusional by these women. Love is a great source of stability, but I think there is enough evidence around that violence and destruction can’t be mothered away either.

I think that a lot of women believe that they can fix their partner if they love them enough and that the abusers say this during reasonable periods so that they continue to remain hooked. I think it’s sometimes an addiction and that they think that they deserve the pain because who else would have them. They honestly think being “loved” by an abuser is better than being alone and that good men are unicorns.

Shows how low the standards for dads are generally as a society.

This is a little different but I've got a friend who does something similar about friends/colleagues/relatives/hairdressers. It has become a pattern with her over the years about people who end up being crap or just normal. She tells me how amaaazing, great, wonderful, even how stunning (?) they are. Just lots of exaggerated gushing. As in "OMG she is absolutely beautiful, I mean WOW, if you could see her, she could be a model! And she's sooooo nice you are going to love her"
Then you meet this new character and they look and act like the average person. The latest was a friend who was sooo amazing who she's had to go no contact with because they assaulted her when drunk. It's got to the point where I just expect when she gushes about someone being amaaaazing they will either turn out to be horrible or totally average like the rest of us. She grew up in an abusive household so I assume that's where it stems from!

I hate it too.

I have an aquaintance who everyone says is a great Dad and it's true he spends a lot of time with DD and takes her on adventures, cultural experiences etc, they do genuinely seem very close.

However he treats her mother and all the other (many) women in his life appallingly, so the most important lesson a father can teach a daughter, how she should expect to be treated by a "good" man, her hero no less, is setting her up for a lifetime of misery.

I do think this a huge factor in women who move from one dreadful man to another.

Delusional but very common. Misdirected empathy probably partly explains why so many women became trans allies.

I agree with this. When a child witnesses DV they are also classed as a victim. Mum gets told if you keep seeing him your child will be taken away. Next thing she knows the abuser is allow unsupervised access.

I also personally believe if a man is happy to hurt a woman then he's happy to hurt a child.

Well observed. I have a dear friend who is just like this. She did indeed grow up in a horribly abusive snd cruel household in which her mother never gave her a word of praise or affection. She told me once that she was dedicated to making sure her children and friends never felt the way she had. Its not a fawning response—she doesn’t say nice things about bad people—but she tries to find and praise whatever is good in people she cares about.

Or the children will be removed

So well timed but loose women has a top female barrister on talking about domestic abuse and how poorly women and children are treated

as someone who was single for a long time - it can be okay (even great in some ways), emotionally or even practically, but not always financially. I think it's important to recognise that plays a factor in why so many people think they can't leave, particularly with kids. Not only might they be in a lower wage but our system is so shit at enforcing the non-resident parent to pay if they don't want to or "can't", there could very feasibly be scenarios where a child is worse off if parents split.

Not to mention if you do have the slightest concern their father is or could become abusive to your children, splitting would mean they would be entitled to access to them without any supervision (as well as anyone else they introduce to the kids - new partner, dodgy mates, inappropriate family members) - easy to see why people would have concerns about that.

Mother in law had a go at DH the other day for looking after our child and doing lions share of play/chores with her as I had a cold over the weekend. “Your dad never helped me with any of that I just had to get on with it” okay??

the amazing dad thing does my head in especially when in context of abuse in the home.

Not just on mumsnet, friend of mine always says this about her friends bloke.. He's abusive and beats her up but he provides and gives his children money so she views him as a good dad.

I was gobsmacked. Clearly the bar is set low or some view this as normal it's messed up really is.

Not that I don't feel for victims of abuse of course I do.

100% this

The thing is. Men are different parents from conception women do more. Our bodies bond and bind us to our children in ways they don't the dad. I'm not saying I think we should applaud men doing the bare minimum but it doesn't surprise me. Why do you think so many men donate sperm? Women wouldn't donate our eggs willy nilly. I find it weird and wouldn't tolerate it myself like I have a friend who asks her DH if he can babysit which I find odd. They are together. We need to pick better men

Yes, I agree. The crap dad isn't suddenly going to be competent if he gets 50/50. The kids will suffer and the mum will be even more stressed.

This. It’s the failure to protect women from violence. Each government says they will try to do something about it. But they fail. You’d need to send a lot of men to prison and criminalize them for any change to start.

I couldn't agree more.

I think that it is partly becaues the bar is so low as other shave pointed out so "he plays with them" etc.

But I think there's also an element of he's a "great dad" because the DC love them - a sort of idea that if he wasn't a good dad, the DC wouldn't love him. Or perhaps it would be having to acknowledge their DC loves someone who isn't good?

Similarly,, because the man "loves" the children, you can't acknowledge he's a bad dad.

And definitely an aspect of not wanting to admit you chose such a person.

This thread feels quite victim blaming.
Domestic violence and abuse is complex, it is not clear cut, there are good and attractive parts of those who abuse, they can be funny and charming and generous, reliable and kind - all of these things can be interchangeable with frightening, abusive and unkind behaviours.

You can make awful choices, do terrible things and still love your children -both mums and dads. You can develop a bond with your child, even if some of your behaviours are shameful, children can adore and love their parents irrespective of bad behaviour and are forever patient and forgiving, knowing the ‘good’ parent is still in there.

Working with children in foster care/adopted or living without one parent, doesn’t necessarily stop them loving that adult even if they ‘are not a good dad/mum’. Love, connection, a bond and good moments are more complex than good or bad, it isn’t always black and white and children and the victim of abuse can see both sides.

I just reread my post in light of this post and I think you're right - I sound like I'm blaming the victims. So I want to reiterate that I am not. When SIL tells me that her ex was a brilliant father.... before he abandoned her and the DC... I KNOW it's complicated. it frustrates me, but I get it.

Op, i totally agree with you, and i often read threads and literally want to bang my head against the wall and gently shake these women by the shoulders and say don't settle for this shit!
Then get overly invested and worked up and take massive breaks from MN.

I have literally just posted words to this effect on another post.

To me victim blaming is more when people blame victims for isolated incidents.
When you are a grown adult, with helpless babies to care for, you have to accept some responsibility for accepting abusive behaviour over and over again. I know it isn't that cut and dry but for fucks sake put the kids first. Sorry if that offends anyone!!!!!!!

It's really not easy.

More often than not the abuser has worn their victim down to believe its not abuse, that its all their fault. This will have been over the course of months and years. They will isolate their victim so they have nobody else to talk to.

How can someone get away from abuse if they don't realise it is abuse, or they believe it to be their fault?

These abusive dads use the kids to manipulate the mum as well, they say they will get full custody, they will drag up X Y and Z incident in court, their kids will never forgive them for taking their dad away, or the mum, when she finally realises the situation is abusive will have to hand her kids over to an abusive man for half the time, a man who has likely threatened harm to the kids if she leaves. He will have also been manipulating the kids the whole time too, so they often don't want to leave.

So then what's the mum supposed to do? Leave to save herself, or stay and bear the brunt of it to save her kids?

It's all well and good in theory saying "put the kids first', but with the court system in this country, and abusers getting handed their kids unsupervised putting your kids first often means staying put.