What is happening to starting salaries in this country?!

[user8636283901]

My starting salary in 2009 - so mid-GFC - was £30,000.

That was 16 years ago! And in one of the worlds worst global recessions since the Great Depression of the '30s.

I was casually looking at starting salaries in similar fields to mine and it seems like they're barely moved, all the while the cost of living is miles ahead of where it was 16 years ago.

Why are wages so low in this country?! Why haven't they moved up?!

That’s largely because people who have no place in higher education are doing degrees which have no business existing.

The education system right through from reception is not fit for purpose. We need to free up teachers from pointless admin so they have time to set proper homework rather than emailing a link to yet another multiple choice “knowledge quiz” kids should be writing essay after essay to hone their critical thinking skills. AI should be blocked from churning out essays. Essays should be handwritten. The arts and humanities should be reprioritised.

Discipline needs to be strictly enforced in school. I’m gobsmacked I repeatedly get calls, emails from school saying “your son is great because he’s turning up to class, ready to learn, answers and asks question’s politely and hands in homework on time”- I’’m gobsmacked because this sort of bare minimum should be a given for every child without major issues going to school. What the fuck are parents doing so this merits a call home? Our son has ADHD and Covid left him with anxiety, but we work hard to give him the skills to cope. Parents need greater accountability, parenting is hard work. We need to re prioritise this in people’s minds. “Gentle parenting” needs laughing out of existence. Being your “child’s best friend” needs kicking in to touch.

The police need more powers to intervene, all this crap about “I have rights” needs a good kicking - and people need to understand they have rights only because they also have responsibilities. If they’re not willing to shoulder the responsibilities they shouldn’t expect rights. My DH got asked by some idiot who was waving a phone in my DHs face whilst being arrested to hold his phone and keep filming whilst he was putting cuffs on him because “it’s my right”

Completely agree, @Exitin. The right wing version of chasing an ideology while letting the economy burn has been cutting all immigration at any cost (there’s a conversation to be had about funding more U.K. medical degrees vs importing doctors, but it’s a long term one), and working furiously to destroy any hint of cooperation between Britain and the EU no matter what the impact on trade and business.

Lazy tribal thinking and finger-pointing is a problem for right and left, and the internet has made this worse.

Too many graduates needing employment.

Too many people in the country anyway so competition has increased leading to employers not needing to make such an effort to attract employees.

Too many people with degrees now. Lots of them no common sense. It’s only going to get worse with AI advancing too. Less jobs available

DD has just been offered a Grad post starting on 35k but it is central London. There were 8k applicants for 180 posts across the country. She is very fortunate I think, the grad job market is brutal and if she hadn't got this I fear she would be working in hospitality for the foreseeable future.

It keeps the job market going though. If you increase business costs with higher wages it will result in less UC top ups but less job positions as businesses will offset the cost of the wages.
That would then result in more people claiming job seekers or having lower paid positions in less sought after roles and then still needing top ups. Also unemployment is awful for society and mental health.
UC looks at financial need (dependants, rental costs) and then tops up where its needed to mitigate the impact of lower wages.

My DH & I were talking about this the other day. He’s a skilled tradesman with 25+ experience. His hourly rate (he’s employed) has barely changed for years. NMW is now not far behind and he was saying he could go deliver groceries for only a few pound less each week. Madness.

Agree, pay is woefully inadequate in many roles.

Likely reasons:

• Raging capitalism
• Growing inequality in terms of pay
• Zero hours contracts and other weak employment rights
• Employers’ market
• Lack of trade union membership
• People generally accept real terms pay cuts (in relation to inflation)
• Staff who demand their pay keeps in line with inflation, and organise to fight for it, get vilified (e.g. striking train drivers, junior doctors etc), which circles back to point above: people accept real terms cuts to avoid looking like ‘trouble-makers’.

Meanwhile, some companies are making huge profits for shareholders and paying their senior staff huge salaries and packages, far in excess of what’s commensurate for the work they do and what’s needed for a comfortable life.

Some companies avoid or evade tax, yet don’t pay their staff enough to live a comfortable life or even pay for essentials. So, the taxpayer is being ripped off twice: once in the lost tax revenue and a second time subsidising these employers by funding top-up universal credit (so impoverished workers can cover basics) and funding the NHS (to deal with the huge amounts of ill-health caused by the stress of low pay and unacceptably demanding working conditions).

Great post @EdithBond

It’s a joke. I’m a journalist (though I’m retraining as something else) and freelance rates are exactly the same as they were 20 years ago. It was crap 20 years ago and now it’s pocket money.

I'm 2008 I had a baby and became self employed in another industry for years to raise him. Back to my original field now, after 3 years I've built back up to practically the same level of skills - in fact I I do more now. Earn £1.5 less than I did in 2008! Last year I found an Oasis concert ticket from late 1990's when they were at the top of their game. £16! Wages have definitely not kept up with the cost of living.

I've been looking at jobs, so many want experience but don't want to pay for that experience.

I'm an experienced PA/EA so why then would I accept a job paying less than 30k? If you want someone with experience supporting senior directors and stakeholders you need to pay them decent money not an entry level salary.

if you want some impressionable young woman who wouldn't have the courage to say no to someone at the top of the company then pay a starting salary. If you want someone with a bit of confidence and isn't swayed by the role then pay a bit more.

Also, to add. If I'd kept my hand in that industry my wages would have at least risen a little every year. I'd be earning far more now.

My starting salary in 1994 was 15.5k.
DS is on a degree apprenticeship and his salary when he finishes this year so first year of actual having his degree will be 35k.

@HarryLimeFoxtrot Have they any work experience in anything at all even if not relevant? When DS got on his degree apprenticeship there were thousands of applicants. He had work experience from a paper round, in a pub kitchen and as a freight handler. He worked from 13 and was accepted on to his course at age 20.

One of the rare fallings out DH and I had was about DS working when at school. I worked in my parents restaurant and also in hotels from 13. We had such different upbringings. His was very MN aspirational, private school, horse riding and sailing lessons. Mine was immigrant parents ansolutley grafting from not much. We met working for the same employer.

What’s happened with housing had been a slo-mo car crash for decades.

Decent council homes sold off at a discount or demolished to ‘regenerate’. No investment to replace them, so net losses year on year. Pushed everyone into the arms of private landlords (and worst still agents) who now have a total stranglehold.

At the same time, the appalling decision to allow Buy to Let mortgages, which had much more favourable terms (lower deposits, interest only, self-cert) than mortgages for people looking to buy to live there. As BTL was big money, all the savvy investors moved in (many middle-class families have/had a secret BTL squirrelled away somewhere).

This extra demand from investors pushed up house prices, attracting even more BTL investors wanting the high capital returns and pricing out potential buyers (with less favourable mortgage terms) looking to owner-occupy. This, in turn, pushed more families (who should have been able to buy) into the arms of private landlords, creating even more demand.

This demand has let to spiralling private rents, which many on average incomes can’t afford. Government’s answer was housing benefit. This drove up the housing benefit bill. So, then successive governments cut that, leaving people with nowhere they could afford to rent. Result: record homelessness.

Only solution: building decent council homes again. So people can tell private landlords to piss off, they have a better alternative and no longer need to rent from them or pay their extortionate rents. Will take the heat out of the market, rents and house prices will fall. Then more families will be able to buy again, further easing demand for rentals. Housing benefit bill will drop.

IMHO BTL mortgages should be scrapped. We have a finite number of homes. They shouldn’t be used as investment or private pension vehicles. Or as holiday lets. Or as second homes. The only mortgages should be for owner-occupiers.

I think graduate starting salaries can be low but soon increase.. My son’s starting salary was 23k 3 years ago, but he’s now on 42k plus nice benefits. My dd started on a good 28k 4 years ago and is now on 45 plus bonus. Both of their employers insisted on a degree.

I agree with all this but would also add...in 1995 the population of the UK was 58 million. It is now about 69 million.

She’s worked as a lifeguard, a waitress, a chambermaid, on reception at an hotel and front of house at a restaurant. She’s had part time jobs since she was 16.

True, the two child cap was very necessary. I meant between the introduction of welfare and early 2000s.

Similar experience at the most recent parents evening, teachers gushing about his effort, knowledge retention, politeness, effort. He’s in a grammar so I had assumed that was all assumed. Only the maths teacher talked about extension work and external organisations who can stretch his knowledge and abilities. (Not showing off, because he’s gotten a perfect score on every language test and yet there was no stretch from the language teacher). Annoyingly, parents were maxed out at 5 subject meetings…that’s the most the school would allow, because they have so many students. The school literally can’t fit more people in the buildings without it being a fire hazard. Oh and they are running out of funding as their budget increases less than their costs every year, and they’ve already postponed major building repairs.

Graduates today are not only facing a labour market where most will struggle to get much above minimum wage, but with massive student loan debts which I know don't kick in repayments at min wage - but it's not much above min wage they do so as soon as they get any sort of pay increase they will probably see it going on repaying a loan. A loan that some never will repay as the interest increase is more than the repayment. So they can end up paying many times the value of the original loan over the years until it is written off. Such a raw deal.

It still blows my mind that a medical degree graduate doesn’t HAVE to work for the NHS for a minimum number of years so that the subsidies to train them are repaid. I’m looking at you, Ali Abdaal who is now on YouTube after a medical degree from Cambridge, but also so many people leaving the country without having repaid the subsidied tuition. That is not a good return from investment of our collective tax money.

Hear hear.

Is there any party which supports at least some of the policies you’re suggesting?

I’m at a loss that politicians - and indeed society as a whole - aren’t pushing much of this. Around 2012, I lived in a South London ex-council house that was sold for a pittance in 1998 and I was paying extortionate rent . The landlord wanted to raise it further without doing any repairs so I had to move .

What have we become? I understand ok people just do what’s best for their pockets, but it’s the cheek of the government letting it all happen.

I dread for the next 10-20 years. I think or at least hope at some point there will be change but I can’t see it come anytime som .

Spot on! It all seems to be a culture war for them while the ones at the top like Farage and co are raking it in, but most of their supporters could care less if their economic conditions decline, as long their leaders “get tough on immigration”

And yes - that’s precisely why I don’t necessarily identify as part of the left or right. Everything is right/left, conservatives/libs now without people properly understanding why they’ve taken a certain position.

£30K starting salary in 2009 sounds pretty high to me. What industry?

I started my first (graduate) job in 2003 on £16k!