My son said he hates me

[okydokethen]

It’s been an awful day and to top it off, my son shouted ‘I hate you’ at me for telling him to put his iPad down/off while he unpacked his school bag. He’s not said this before - he’s 11 and he sort of squared up to me as well, not sure how to describe it.

Im really tired, I’ve removed myself quietly from the room and am posting on here because I’m not sure how best to respond. I don’t want to go OTT but also want to nip it in the bud if I can.

help :-(

i think I’ll wait till we’ve calmed down - say it upset me but I love him and leave it there.
I want to try and stick with (tiny) jobs first then screen time - we do homework in mornings so it’s just a bit of tidying up.
@TimeForTeaAndToast- this rings true for us
@JustMyView13- thank you that’s good to hear

There are lots of lovely things about him-
Gets up and ready and does homework in morning no problem.
Doing great at school and has nice well behaved friends (who all game a lot)
He rides his bike to and from school, does sports and a music club
He loves reading
W funny and loves his animals and is generous and caring
sleeps well
(He struggles with eating would be my only other issue and like me has IBS)

But the anger is beginning to show and I don’t know how best to respond, today is the worst it’s been but like people are saying he’s only 11 - what happens when he’s 14??

There are a few things going on. It’s absolutely fine to be sad about what he said. It’s fine to tell him, later when things are calm, that it really hurt your feelings and made you sad.

You are moving out of the ‘because I said so’ era and into the ‘because it’s a better choice’ era.

with the shopping bags- ‘gosh, do you think it would be easier if you had both hands free? I’m worried your phone will get dropped and break’.

You need a healthy dose of ‘what’s in it for him’, spelling out the consequences of good choices and bad choices and letting him face them.

You are trying to teach qualities/skills like delayed gratification, thinking about consequences, so he does well when no one is around to tell him off.

This stage is about laying out the pros and cons and advising so he can assess choices well.

Why not ask him when he would like to do the chores/small jobs? Give him a couple of options and allow him to make the decision. He is nearly a teenager and is probably very hormonal and feeling the lack of power/control in your relationship. Do these small jobs have to be done at a certain time? If not, then have a chat about chores. The squaring up might be better discussed in the car on the way home from somewhere. That was always when mine wanted to talk.

I have two sons. Big on gaming, youngest plays for his uni in esports. So it has never stopped. How I dealt with it. After school there is a schedule, get changed, get food and a drink and a chat about your day, specifically what did you study in each subject, this can also spark conversations about it too. At a set time they start their homework and I was there to guide, suggest, whatever. At a certain time they were allowed tech but only if they gave their homework their best. Then family dinner again a set time so they knew the latest they could start a game that was timed. After dinner some family tv together and off again to game etc. Before school was watching the news and us talking about what was going on in the world in the kitchen whilst we ate breakfast.

I do agree that Fortnite was a particular trigger for bad behaviour. But we talked about it, like they were adults. You tell him what you observe, I can see that Fortnite makes you feel frustrated, what do you think you can do about that? What can I help you with? Let him figure it out.

Also tell him you understand that it is hard to stop the game even more so if it is open ended like Minecraft, there is no end of game. Ask him to come up with a screen time schedule that he thinks is fair and corresponds with his mates playing too. Then look over it, see what he is suggesting. For mine they did chores too, dishwasher in the morning and emptying bins, plus stripping their beds etc. All this behaviour facilitated them choosing what they wanted to do with their free time, which of course is being online.

We had sit down talks at the table for anyone including parents to air their grievances in a positive manner so instead of I hate it when this happens, more I would like it if that happens instead, name the behaviour you want to see. The children felt empowered to ask for table talk and request later bedtimes, or a phone upgrade, whatever. It worked for us.

OP, the bigger issue here is that your son is 11 years old and squaring up to you.
That's not normal behaviour, and it needs to be addressed.
This, more so than the screen time.

@BCSurvivorwell, yeah that’s why I’m upset and asking for advice.

Are you asking him what's going on here?

Are you negotiating and offering opportunities for more TV time and less controlling by you as long as he does what you ask. Are you talking about Fortnite and saying to him it's made on purpose to cause addiction and rage.
Can you offer to buy him something else if he does something to earn it over the week?
Tell him you'll be consulting school immediately if there is one more interaction involving squaring up again.

You sound vulnerable to manipulation by the way you are writing this thread.

Who cares if he says he hates you. He doesn't hate you. But he has observed you well and knows how very much it hurts you.

OP, you have made that the title of this post!! Come on. Time to wake up.

Mine got a 15 minute warning. If they hadn’t saved/logged out when asked to I switched off the wifi. Funnily enough they only did it once.

Fortnite is the root of all evil and is banned in this house. It turned my lovely son into the devil, even he noticed the change in his personality after playing it.
We also have a rule, he gets in from school and has 20 minutes on a screen then after that he has to do his homework, empty school bag etc. We lock his phone until that is all done

My son is 15 and I would never accept this. Behaviour, unfortunately we live in a world where alot of parents are haply to sit their kids in front of screens just so they can have some peace, this leads to issues when kids like ours with strict restrictions feel they are being hard done to because friend x and friend y are gaming 8+ hours a day and often up late at night using screens.

It's a big no no in our house and always has been my son has clashed with me a fee times years ago about it but now is well aware of his screen time, the rules and the boundaries and it is never an issue. You just have to persevere and he'll get used to it.

I agree with a previous poster, confiscate it immediately for a set time and do not give it back. I'd of taken it for a whole week along with all other screens if my son squared up to me, which he once did, he's never once done it again.

There's no need to get upset, taking the things they love the most works best and gets them in line far quicker than anything else. After a week without it he will think twice before arguing with you again I assure you!!

@Pleaseshutthefuckup
Yes, it absolutely does upset me, I definitely care. By saying it, he didn’t gain anything so it wasn’t effective manipulation.

Its interesting to see a mix of ban it/talk about it replies.

I’ve tried recently banning/stopping outright and it isn’t working, I have no desire to have a battleground home life and I feel that’s what we are beginning.

The approach and advise i will take from here is, accepting his loves of bloody Fortnite and knowing he is also doing well at school/exercising/has outside interests so a bit of biting my tongue and not trying to micro-manage, encourage more choice of his decisions.

Im not going to allow more time generally but might occasionally if it is an incentive - carrot not stick style.

l’ll audio book the book recommendation to help me encourage listening on both sides. I’ve heard this recommended lots of times but didn’t feel I needed it at the time, as no issues with teen DD (!)

Really interesting point about how I allow him to express anger - i don’t know that I do, so I need to think about this - certainly physical exercise is important. But I find angry outbursts hard to deal with and neither of my children until now have shown much anger.

I think OP is well aware of that! But one occasion does make it a huge concern. Dealing with it right now, making absolutely clear to him that is unacceptable behaviour especially to a woman and implementing punishment of removing said iPad is likely to send a clear message.

I can't tell you the exact answer because it depends on temperament and other environmental stressors. And if there's any possibility he's ND, which is so common that I always drop it in for consideration.

He sounds to me like someone headstrong who needs a bit of control and feels dominated. So I sense negotiating will be the best option for everyone. That means don't be too strict but have rules around your flexibility and negotiate these expectations with him in advance including exactly what consequences will be for things - like intimidation.

My son has gone off Fortnite but I didn't ban it - because I pick battles and there's alot of issues. I just said change the game the minute I heard him get out of control angry or start swearing too much at the screen. He decided himself eventually to stop it. I just turned it off at the wall if he didn't voluntarily switch games.

I don't believe YouTube is making him square up to you. Or, even Fortnite. But Fortnite really will exacerbate anger. A conversation with him that is honest and open about that - just try it and see what he suggests himself.

The number one issue here is him squaring up!

Fortnite does funny things to kids. I'm not entirely sure what it is about that game specifically tbh. Ds played computer games for years, but only Fortnite had an effect on his mood and behaviour. He gave it up through his own choice because he recognised it was making him angry!

I can't stand this sort of behaviour. I just don't think there's ever an excuse for it and I always challenged it in my DC but not angrily. I also always bothered to have the long, dull conversation about the pressures put on us by companies that depend on people being passive and unresistant to their ploys to addict us to sugar or gaming or gambling etc.

Wait until after dinner and say you'd like a word. Ask him if he remembers what he said to you and if he has anything to say about that reaction now. Whether or not he apolgises, ask him how he would feel if you told him you hated him. Get him to reply properly, not just mumble 'dunno.'

Ask him what he thinkst the game designers are doing to hook players so powerfully that they are aggressive to the people who love them most in the world, if the game is interrupted or paused. Ask if he wants to be one of the game designers' imprisoned sheep or his own person, in control of his emotions, unaddicted, able to drop a mere video game in order to connect fully with his real life in the present moment. It takes a bit of discipline and self-confidence but tell him you think he has it in him not to be one of those sheep. It may be important to connect with his friends via gaming, but he should also be given, and take, plenty of opportunities to make friends whose lives don't revolve around screens, via sports clubs, scouting, youth theatre or music groups, debating or other interest groups.

I remove the controller until what teen has to do is done. Because it was a huge battle. They know now. School bag empty. Uniform In laundry bin at the very least. If we're having an early dinner then dinner 1st.
It was about 2 weeks of ' this sucks' but then it settled. Now they don't even try and ask for the controller if they know it's not done.

A ban will only work if you stick to it. Hold your ground. You're the parent.
I don't mean that horribly. I made mistakes with my eldest by giving In all the time. I made a rod for my own back. When he got to 15 I had huge problems with him and lack of respect. I knuckled down with boundaries and when there was a consequence I stuck to it. It was rocky but we got there. He's now one of the most respectful of his peer circle , finished college got a good job . But it was bloody hard

With the others I've learned by my own mistakes.

Right so DS came up to me and apologised… but he didn’t like being asked where squaring up came from, shrugged and huffed and wanted to leave. I think he was feeling uncomfortable and that I was holding him accountable, apology or not.

He took a shower and ate dinner and was notably making an effort to help. He was able to talk about time on Fortnite - he said he will play more Minecraft instead and agreed he would unpack his bags/put stuff away before turning it on - he suggested I block the time he can turn it on (a headache with parental controls but I’ll try!)

Oh and he does Scouts/football/another sports club and plays an instrument, swimming and a science club at school, so plenty of other interests.

Don't ever stop calling out intimidating behaviour. Don't ever allow it to be minimised. My son does this minimising and it's awful. I really didn't see it properly for a long time. I see it now and it's a challenge because I am alone ( no witness or back up to minimisation behaviour). I am thinking that dad is not in the home here?

That makes you vulnerable to being manipulated depending on his personality type.

Don't listen to I hate you any more. It means nothing. I would hardly react to that other than ' well that's a shame. I can't help you with that. I love you. Now we'll chat later when you're feeling chilled '

Ok I’m pleased I did call it out as tiring as it is.

Dad/DH came home and told DS he wasn’t happy to hear he’d spoken to me like that and that it wasn’t ok. DH was calm and this went quite well, sometimes he can react too strongly - not angrily, he certainly doesn’t square up but he can be too loud and exasperated and DS doesn’t always respond well but today he did, he said ‘I know, I’m sorry, I said sorry’ and ‘It won’t happen again’

We shall see

Fortnite is a complete pain. Minecraft much better i find.

By this age we did quite a lot of what are the long term consequences of things. Working on critical thinking. The why behind things. Like why does it make you feel like that. Do you think the makers of the game want that to happen? Why? What’s in it for them? If you behave like that what do you think might happen in the longer term? Not as an interrogation but as genuine questions to get him thinking on a less emotive more evaluative level.

I agree. Time consuming as it is, helping them think critically about how what they do affects their mood and behaviour, and whether that feels like the right or wrong track to be on, is so useful to them.

Dd here instead of ds but when she said to me at 7.30 one school morning “I hate you “, I just cheerfully replied that I was off to bed with a book. Her face just dropped and she asked why so I said “you are a teenager and you hate your mum. This is the pinnacle of my achievements today and it’s only 7.30 am. So, I’m going back to bed with a book”. Her face was a picture and she was very good and back-pedalled immediately.