Public school, middle class, socialism. Things that mean something different to Americans

[blubbyblub]

Pants/trousers, fanny and several other words have a different meaning in the US to the UK. But also middle class, public school and socialism are misunderstood by Americans I think when British people use these terms.

US posters what do these terms mean to you?

If you don’t mind revealing, where is the US are you describing?

In America middle class literally means middle class IE not rich or poor just in the middle. In the UK it basically means rich, they just don't want to be called rich so insist they're the middle because they feel self conscious about having money or something?

Anyway I was of the American mindset and I thought I was middle class until I came on this site and realised I am a complete and utter peasant

I think quite has two meanings in the UK but one is in more common usage. For instance have you ever replied "quite" to a statement someone has made meaning "exactly"?

The country doesn’t have a monarchy (after obviously leaving one) so everyone came over for a better life and made their way.

Not everyone and those divides are still there.

"I might see you there later"

US: You'll probably be there later.
UK: There's not a cat in hell's chance of me being there later; I'll have taken my bra off and curled up on the sofa with my cat."

I'm in a suburb of a large and thriving midwest city.

The "The Democrats are to the right of the Tories" gets quoted a lot on social media, but it's not true at all. It's quite complicated because first, both parties have historically been coalitions (the Republicans have become more uniform in recent years) and second, because it's difficult to pass legislation so the Democrats are still fighting for things that would be basic in any European country like universal healthcare and parental leave. But especially with the rightward turn in the Tories that's just not true anymore. Frankly at the moment the Democrats are to the left of the Labour Party, but that's a whole other issue! On many issues, particularly social ones, the Democrats are much further to the left than they are credited with.

I'm in Ireland and when we talk about a school where you pay fees it's a 'private school'. I genuinely didn't realise that the same concept is public school in UK for a long time. I don't know what it's called in NI, it must get confusing!

I'm always interested in language and it's evolution and I think the differences can be found more colloquially too, not just US v UK. Only yesterday a friend was laughing at her Mum innocently using a phrase that means something sexual and I said I'd never heard of this slang. She said everyone used this term when she was growing up, we are from opposite ends of the same county.

Momentarily is a word I realised has a different meaning, when I flew on a US airline, they announced that we would be taking off momentarily- to me that means FOR a moment, to Americans it means IN a moment. In that context that word mattered to me!

Everyone is middle class. You see yourself as middle class as is everyone around you. When media runs a story about the middle
class, your mental model will be your extended family and your community.

Nobody would really describe themselves as working class or upper class, though we might describe OTHER people as upper middle class or working poor. A good euphemism here is that ‘we’re comfortable’ (ie you are actually quite wealthy)

Can’t really explain it but it’s why we don’t talk about money. We don’t want to quantify what these categories might mean.

Public schools reflect the socioeconomics of the community, so it’s not like in the UK where you can have a hard time getting your kids into a school you feel that fits your family. You just go to the local public school, no sweat. If you happen to live in an urban environment, you’ll likely be sending them to a private however (you would have the money to do this).

Socialism is communism. Thats what we think anyway lol.

Private schools are not the same as public schools. There are only 9 public schools (originally only 7). Any other fee-paying school is just private/independent.

I don't see it like this in the UK. 'Upper class' is the aristocracy - people who are titled (i.e.inherited titles) and live off inherited wealth and land. You can't become upper class by making your own money.

Everyone else is middle class or working class, depending on type of job done, level of education, cultural outlook, income etc. Many people call themselves middle class who aren't really, because it's seen as 'better' than working class. The boundaries have become blurred and are complicated further by the rise of the 'non-working class' - people who live off state support only, for whatever reason.

You don’t have to go as far as America for that to confuse people though 😁
I’m in Ireland and college is always third-level education, university or otherwise.

Pants are also trousers here, though the word trousers is used more now I’d say. Trousers was the original meaning of pants (short for pantaloons), but it then evolved further in the UK (or in parts of the UK anyway?) to mean underwear. But trousers is the older meaning and it didn’t change everywhere.

DC’s school still uses ‘slacks’ on the uniform list, but that’s old-fashioned here now.

Even in cities, private schools are primarily for the affluent, and the percentages vary quite a bit by city and even within cities. larger cities also have choice programmes particularly for high school, and charter schools, which are publicly funded but not run by the local school board. In my suburb, which has a large county school board, we have magnet choices for high school, but for elementary it's your zoned school unless you need a special education programme that isn't available there.

Traditionally, parish Catholic schools were affordable and an option for working class families, but that's less true than it used to be; schools have been closing for decades. (There is a division between parish/diocesan schools, which are subsidized for members, and independent Catholic schools. Some of the independents are very expensive. Lady Gaga went to Sacred Heart, which is $50K a year.)

There are big divisions in types of private school. In parts of the South particularly, conservative Christian schools can be relatively inexpensive. Some were opened as a response to desegregation, others because of beliefs about teaching evolution in public schools and the like. Then there are expensive college preparatory schools, much more like most independent schools in the UK, and also ones with alternative educational philosophies such as Montessori and Steiner.

Religious teaching is banned in schools, and in much of the country that is actually taken quite seriously. In London I would have sent my children to a Jewish school, and paid only the religious studies fee. Here, it's fully private, and something like $15K for K-8 and more for high school. For some families, religion alone is a motivation.

Yes aristocracy is such a small number of people so anyone who isn't titled but is rich is "middle class" in the UK.
Like I said I prefer the American way of thinking where middle literally means middle (and doesn't even have to be average country wide but just what you interpret"middle" to be based on people around you), it was Mumsnet that made me realise I'm actually a complete and utter peasant 😂😔

Upper class isn’t a synonym for ‘aristocracy’, though, and it doesn’t necessarily have much to do with actual current wealth. Aristocrats are part of the UC, but not all UC people are aristocrats.

One word which caught me out living in the US was ‘casualty’.

It took me a while to understand that, at least in Texas, it meant ‘fatality’ not just hurt.

Not just aristocracy but landed gentry and nobility are considered UC in the UK.
it’s a weird class imo
the whole UK system is weird.

‘Public schools’ are an English thing not a UK thing.

in Scotland fee paying schools are ‘private schools’ and all the rest are ‘state schools’.

I disagree. I think many people in that category in the US would call themselves upper middle class, and I also think many others would view them that way.

Middle class is an identity with a set of values - working hard, making sure your kids do their best in school - rather than speaking with any particular accent or home buying (though very few people living in public housing would ever identify as MC). Identity is overall more a case of having a soft spot for your ethnic origins in the US than anything class based.

Well put. For example, people who have jobs in the US that would be called "working class" in the UK are very likely to identify as middle class in the US especially if they are successful in those jobs and have a good standard of living. And as others have pointed out, most people use the term "blue collar" rather than "working class."

I’m English but my understanding is the MC in America is to do with how much money you earn whereas in the UK it’s to do with all the other, less tangible stuff.