We can't stop the boats without leaving the ECHR, right?

[Notmycircusnotmyotter]

forgive my ignorance, but this is the case isn't it? And yet other countries ignore judgments and deport illegal immigrants (Poland for example).

I don't really know where I sit so this isn't supposed to be goady but the collective mind will know more. My question is, why isn't this part of the discussion? Government / media never shut up about small boat crossings but short of drastic action (towing them back? Deportations?) what can they actually do?

Well they're going to be very disappointed. It removes our right to challenge the government and takes away our basic rights.

I’d say those who would like border control got an Aus system they’d be ok with it. In fact it’d never be voted out.

One of the root causes of migration is war and political and economic instability in other countries. The aid programs which now have been cut were designed to improve the situation.

That is not to say that probably a lot of the programs didn’t focus enough on the basics: to help people in the way they need (medical help, food, improving women’s and children’s rights, including education…) so that they can change their situation in the long term.

However, there is often a fine line between support and interference, and I have gained the impression that external aid lets local elites off the hook, which strengthens the social imbalances, as the population is not upset enough to demand a change in government or a redistribution of wealth and asking that elite wealth be invested in infrastructure or education.

Additionally, there are some imbalances that are impossible to change for average citizens, for example different groups of regional warlords, where resistance can be deadly. You can’t do anything about that, unless you join them (and they often recruit kids).

There is much said about (post-)colonial guilt and a messed up economic system, but with all the aid that came in for decades, let’s say since the 1950s, and states becoming sovereign, there were now plenty of years where you’d expect regional and national leaders in many African and Middle Eastern countries to somehow initiate a turn for the better.

But there is still the same goldmine-rush for minerals that are needed for electronic devices and engineering, with awful working conditions and no care for the environment. There are still every week reports on how girls and women are kidnapped and killed by warring groups somewhere.

This can’t be only changed from outside, but apart from couple of UN resolutions and similar (and a few NGOs), I don’t really see anyone (who has enough power for change) standing up and saying: lets see how we can make a livable country.

There were enough invasions in various countries to show that if outsiders don’t understand the country and how it works, the history and social rules, they will always leave chaos behind when they leave. And of course there are system clashes like USA – Afghanistan, which can never work.

We see the political climate becoming even worse in democratic countries, instead of the other way round.

Some examples:
Specialist and extremely important research lab on tropical diseases destroyed by war in Sudan:
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2025/may/08/gleaming-labs-turned-to-rubble-scientists-mourn-the-loss-of-decades-of-medical-progress-in-sudan

The Congo wars and the hunt for mobile phone raw materials:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2025/may/07/minerals-mobile-phones-and-militias-war-and-peace-in-drc

The best answer is to rejoin the EU (for so many reasons)

I dont dispute your analysis, but can you add how many are men vs women from Afghanistan in particular.

Also language, custom, religion, family etc: Syrian, Iran, Vietnam and Eritrea

None of these are countries where there have been historical large settlements of population in the UK. And none of these are countries that would seem to support female and female-child migration into other countries, due to their traditional views.

I will challenge you that these recent immigrants into the UK are nearly all male. I no longer find that acceptable and am no longer prepared to support unboundred immigration. An Australian style immigration is a good alternative for me.

Thanks for letting me know.

It's not easy when many of those who apply for asylum in the UK have already been failed by Germany or other EU countries. The rules should be you can only apply for asylum to one European country, not try each one until you get to UK who agrees to let almost anyone stay.

You can't apply to more than one EU country for asylum.

If you are d nied asylum in one country, then you can apply to a different country. This happens all of the time.

Those figures are not accurate, Albanians were the 2nd largest group coming. You’re obviously talking about the ones who applied for asylum, not the Turks and the Indians. This is before we get into the ones who pretend they want to be carers do the job 2 days and then go off and do something else, whilst get social housing and top up benefits.

These men should be fighting for their country, not running away like cowards. These people won’t be fighting for our country if we get invaded they don’t even seem to like our culture.

Do you suggest to house and feed and give universal credit to every asylum seeker? If others think like yourself it’s no wonder I have never seen so many badly mannered foreigners on my street, running me over on their Deliveroos E bikes. I don’t like it. I miss my country of 30 years ago it hasn’t changed for the better’s . I will have to retire to the rural Highlands to feel like I live in my own country. Frankly I hate it and will be encouraging my son to emigrate on completion of his studies as it doesn’t take a genius to work out you take millions of low skilled, uneducated foreigners it’s basically like importing the underclass what country would do that? You want the biggest and brightest not the dim and weak, that’s how other countries work and it’s ok to say no to people who aren’t clever and poor. You choose the best people like a company. Just like in life if you’re an employer or dating and you’re indiscriminate well it would be a disaster as you are not a charity and neither is our country.

@snughugs They're government figures. So best alert the HO and tell them that your figures are more accurate.

Yes, indeed, I'm talking about people coming over on small boats from France. You seem to be talking about immigrants in general.

Now back to asylum seekers. I've explained this to you before because you seem confused about what asylum seekers are. They're not all fleeing war. They're fleeing a well founded fear of persecution. Afghanistan isn't at war for example but is run by the Taliban. Syria was run by Assad.

Asylum seekers don't get universal credit. You seem to be suggesting that all immigrants are bad mannered delivery drivers which isn't the case. Many work for the NHS.

You're complaining about immigrants and want your son to be an immigrant. Now you're talking about us being a charity. The vast majority come here on working visas.

This thread is about the ECHR by the way.

This

..is a red herring. We took more than we sent back. It was a way in.

You'll be encouraging your son to emigrate?

Oh, the irony.

I worked with asylum seekers for two years many years ago.

They are NOT all uneducated. That is an overgeneralisation.

As PM T Blair was promising to reduce immigration which is a decade before Brexit

You can, just only one country at a time.

The “Dublin procedure” means that an asylum application has to be examined under the law of only one country.

Farage cannot send them back, he is a racist liar, he constantly insults the French president and he can't do anything without co-operation. He doesn't want to stop the boats, it is his raison d'être. It is what makes himself money. And leaving the ECHR with solve nothing, Trust me, I am an EU lawyer. Anyway, that aside, I am new to this site and am horrified at these racist thread. Who knew so many caring mothers were teaching their children to hate other people. Again moderator, can you stop these threads, they only allow people to share their racism and that is anathema to bringing up children.

Those are the rules and what you are saying is wrong, if they fail in Germany they cannot be granted asylum here. Perhaps check your facts before airing your racism.

We need a points system like Australia where gaps in professions especially skilled ones are welcomed. It should be all about how useful someone is.

Tom saw brick today lbc had cambridge lawyer re palentinsian mum has been allowed to come here for a right to family life with her daughter here

On surface it sounds right and proper and it probably is in an ideal world however yvette Cooper did try and fight it because it will open more loop holes and floodgates for everyone else!!

The biggest problem isn’t the ECHR, it’s that we don’t have anywhere to send people back to. Many destroy their documents and don’t answer questions, so if we don’t know which country they come from, how do we return them? The country we are sending them back to also has to accept them. If they refuse to let people off the planes what do you think we can do?
There are agreements now to return Albanians, and several others. The first page link below from the House of Commons Library shows the 24 countries agreements are made with.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-10157/CBP-10157.pdf

i agree we need to be able to protect our borders but short of deliberately letting people die in the Channel which would rightly be considered an atrocity, I don’t think there is more the government can do, apart from negotiate even more return agreements

@ForestAtTheSea interesting post

It's a wild world out there.
If woman and children are being kidnapped by war lords who is there to help them if the young men are fleeing? How can any change be affected if it's the woman and children there. Women can affect change of course but i know how I changed in the face of threat being responsible just for myself or having dc in tow.

Because there are no regular routes to claim asylum now. You have to be on UK soil to claim asylum and the route to do so is very physically challenging.
If I created a very difficult, dangerous obstacle course and challenged people to get to the end the vast majority who succeeded would be young men..that doesn't make the men bad, they can be in fear of their lives/wanting a better life as much as anyone.
The current system works as a filter for healthy young men who are motivated to take risks.

Which is why the.one in one out policy is good because it enables the UK much more control - the people they take on exchange can include children, women who are deserving but would never have made it via boat.