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How many of you would agree with this analysis of why Brits in general are so angry at Tony Blair for the Iraq War?

23 replies

kmo0416 · 07/05/2025 22:42

I found this article from another source which was a very well-written answer to why Australians aren't as angry at their government for having taken them into Iraq as the British people are. It relates to British insecurity in terms of their national identity and so it goes beyond the notion of not wanting dead troops or wasting money.

The article:
"Australians have not demonised John Howard to anywhere near the extent that Britons have demonised Tony Blair over the single issue of the Second Gulf War. People here do not have the Pavlovian reaction “Howard–Iraq”, the way Blair’s entire legacy has become Iraq in the UK.

What is the difference?

A difference, but only a minor difference, is that Howard was a conservative, unadventurous Tory, dedicated to the proposition of making Australia “relaxed and comfortable” after a decade of Labor reform. The Left already despised Howard; they were not going to turn on him because of the lies on WMD and the military adventurism. They already had a heavy backlog of resentments towards him. They did not feel betrayed by one of their own, the way the Left did in the UK (to the extent that New Labour was the Left.)

A minor difference, because foreign policy in Australia is bipartisan, and Labor has long been terrified of being wedged by the Right on foreign policy. (China policy has been a recent exception to bipartisanship, and the emerging rift between the parties on that policy is in itself troubling.) It’s not like a Labor government was ever going to decline to go to war on WMD.
It’s useful to think back to the First Iraq War, when Australia did have a Labor government—albeit a government that pioneered the centrist turn of “New Labour” a decade before the UK. Gareth Evans was foreign minister, and he gave a speech when Parliament was debating joining the war. (Not much of a debate, of course.) And Evans was committed to the allied effort against Saddam Hussein, but he still allowed himself the on-the-record wry aside, “Some might say we are seeking to make the world safe for feudalism”, before going on to say that the war should be joined, not out of Wilsonian interventionism (“make the world safe for democracy”), but to preserve the Westphalian principle of national sovereignty of Kuwait.

Evans allowed himself the wry aside, because as a centre-left internationalist, he wasn’t particularly overjoyed at the prospect of defending Kuwait. He allowed it himself, because he was sympathetic to Wilsonian notions of democracy, and was all too aware of the War For Oil slogans of the Left.
The quixotic Whitlam did pick fights with Nixon, in the previous Australian Labor administration, and flirted with removing the US bases in Australia. The Australian Left has indulged in fantasies that he was toppled by the CIA. Whitlam is a long-distant memory in Australian foreign policy, because it is bipartisan accepted wisdom that Australia, as a minor regional power that feels itself geopolitically exposed, and dependent on America’s nuclear umbrella, doesn’t really have a choice. Even though over the past decade, some pundits have started to grumble that we shouldn’t just pick the US over China reflexively, given how much we depend on trade with China. As indeed we have recently found.

It’s because Australia feels they don’t really have a choice that Hawke and Evans joined the effort to make the world safe for feudalism. It’s because Australia feels they don’t really have a choice that Howard and his own foreign minister Downer acquiesced to the WMD narrative.
And I think that is why Blair is tarred so relentlessly over Iraq, and Howard isn’t. Nobody expected better of Howard, and noone would have expected better had Australia been governed instead by Labor’s Beazley or—heaven help us—the unhinged Latham, who has since turned from socially conservative Labor to screaming White Nationalist. Australia was always going to go along with whatever nonsense the unrepentant Wolfowitz dreamed up. (Last seen grousing they should have stayed for five decades, like in Korea.)
But Blair was different. The UK has a figleaf of an independent foreign policy, and a conceit that the Special Relationship is a partnership of equals. Holt in Australia went “All the way with LBJ” into Vietnam; Wilson in the UK stayed out of it. Blair was not a plodding follower of whatever neocon fantasy Head Office came up with; he was an advocate and a true believer. Australia shrugged off the accusation that we are Australia’s local sheriff: well, yeah, what are ya gonna do. But the accusation that Blair was America’s poodle stung Britain. And what made Britons even more offended is that Blair didn’t go along: he jumped in head first. He bought into the narrative.

Britons expect more of their foreign policy, because of their Great Power legacy, and their ongoing denial that they are subordinate to the Superpower. Australians have no such legacy, and nobody here felt betrayed or let down by Howard. Like I said at the outset: whether you were for him or against him as a prime minister (and I acknowledge my bias), Howard did what everyone expected him to do".

The end.

What do you think?

OP posts:
IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 07/05/2025 22:52

I can't speak for the Australians, but as a Brit, I don't like the implication that we're obsessive and looking for a way to demonise Blair.

People who are directly and knowingly responsible for the deaths of one or a few innocent people tend to get very harsh sentences; but it seems that, if it's thousands and thousands of innocent deaths, you end up getting a knighthood.

I'm not denying that Blair did some very good things as PM, but Iraq will always be his main legacy.

Harold Shipman was a very good doctor for years and genuinely helped a lot of patients - he was the family doctor of one of our friends decades ago; but that doesn't in any way outweigh his actual legacy as a truly evil, abhorrent person.

Lighteningstrikes · 07/05/2025 23:27

Yanbu
It was an illegal war and he has a knighthood.

There is no justice.

BobbyBiscuits · 07/05/2025 23:31

They didn't have a reason to do it. So they lied and made one up. Then tried to shut everyone up about it and lots of people ended up being found dead by 'suicide' who were involved in trying to expose the truth.

Blair put his own interests ahead of the safety and wellbeing of the entire country.

I think that's why we have a strong suspicion he might be a bit of a cock.

CuttedPearPie · 07/05/2025 23:31

Another difference: despite what the guardian would have you believe British people tend to be pretty good people

MarkingBad · 07/05/2025 23:50

I think the writer got their reasons wrong and relied on lazy stereotype of the British crying, red faced, into Union Jack hankies, wearing Harrods socks, next to a cold plate of fish and chips, because they don't have any milk to put in their tea no longer have Empire.

I think it is simply that the UK required more of their Prime Minister than just telling the USA that we are 'With you whatever'. Surely that isn't a bad thing? I don't think it had anything to do with seeing ourselves through the lens of nostalgia, more to do with having an expectation to do what is right, not blindly follow the bigger boy, bully, country.

The man had the gall to ignore his own cabinet, his own party, and his own people. It was always about what he could personally gain and not what he could achieve.

MiloMinderbinder925 · 08/05/2025 00:05

I'm not exactly sure what the writer is talking about.

The Chilcot report found that Blair lied.There was no imminent threat from Hussein and the British military were ill equipped for the task. We lost service personnel, it's estimated that the invasion may have killed up to 1m civilians and the 7/7 bombers directly blamed the invasion for their attack.

Blair took us into the war because of US relations "with you whatever" and the Chilcot report found that relations would not have been harmed had we refused.

What does that have to do with Australia?

Morningsleepin · 08/05/2025 01:16

And three million people turned out to march against the war but he went ahead anyway

TomPinch · 08/05/2025 02:40

"The UK has a figleaf of an independent foreign policy, and a conceit that the Special Relationship is a partnership of equals"

Lol.

Or: "We Australians know out lowly place, why are those damn Pommies getting above themselves? Pull 'em down!!!"

DenholmElliot11 · 08/05/2025 02:49

Blair then donated all royalties from his autobiography to the Royal British Legion because he felt so guilty.

That's quite a lot of money.

TomPinch · 08/05/2025 03:00

It was a truly dumb decision that made the UK complicit in absolute chaos, misery and slaughter across the Middle East, the rise of Islamic State and displaced people fanning out across Europe, leading to the rise of strain on public services and extremism and. Isn't that a more obvious reason to be angry than it being some sort of British conceit?

When Vance waaaahs about Europe not taking its fair share of military expenses he ought to remember that the US could have spent as little as Europe were it not for stupid US-instigated expeditions like the Iraq war

EconomyClassRockstar · 08/05/2025 03:16

3 million people plus marched the streets of London. I was there with my newborn baby. It was one of the biggest political marches ever seen. And ultimately, we got ignored and hundreds of thousands of people died anyway. And then reality tv hit our screens and we just forgot what we were supposed to be watching.

CharSiu · 08/05/2025 06:58

Regardless of what Australians think Blair is a liar and took the UK to an illegal war and as other posters pointed out millions marched against it. I wanted to go but had a very young baby that would have had to come as BF at the time and DH was too worried. Well done for going @EconomyClassRockstar with such a small baby.

@TomPinch first para has explained very clearly why that decision has had huge ramifications to this day.

Plus fuck his donation of his biography money, it’s probably like me donating £50. I see he kept it quiet as well. I despise that politician above all others.

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 08/05/2025 08:12

DenholmElliot11 · 08/05/2025 02:49

Blair then donated all royalties from his autobiography to the Royal British Legion because he felt so guilty.

That's quite a lot of money.

Interesting how he still felt entitled to keep the knighthood, though; and didn't feel the need to step down from his 'philanthropist/good-guy' foundation in disgrace.

NicolaCasanova · 08/05/2025 08:17

Dr. David Kelly

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 08/05/2025 09:59

Because war is a serious business and not to be carried out under false pretences.

mindutopia · 08/05/2025 10:15

Are Brits really angry at Tony Blair still for the Iraq war? Around these parts everyone seems to be angry at Labour for a decade and a half of bad Tory leadership.

DeafLeppard · 08/05/2025 10:20

I don't know anyone who gives the Iraq war a second thought, tbh.

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 08/05/2025 11:08

I'm sure there are still countless Iraqis mourning their lost loved ones and the aftermath of their devastated lives - or do only British lives have any importance?

It was war - with huge numbers of people killed - started on the back of a deliberate lie. It wasn't a silly neighbour fence dispute from years ago that we can all just forget about and put behind us now.

On this, of all days, how bizarre and deeply disrespectful for people to suggest that we just forget about wars and all of the innocent people - many of them children - who had their lives torn away from them.

unsync · 08/05/2025 14:40

He's a liar and a hypocrite. Not only did he take the UK into the war on false pretenses, which ultimately led to ISIS and triggered 9/11 and 7/7, but he then had the nerve to set up an organisation to facilitate peace in the Middle East with himself as a peace envoy. You couldn't make it up really could you? Loathsome man. He should be ashamed of what he did. All that blood on his hands.

FourSeasonsLobelia · 08/05/2025 14:50

CuttedPearPie · 07/05/2025 23:31

Another difference: despite what the guardian would have you believe British people tend to be pretty good people

I suspect you did not mean to phrase it this way, but are you saying Australians are not good people?!

I am not British (Australian) and did not live in the Uk during the Iraq war- or indeed in Australia. I don't have strong feelings in the way I have heard. But I do think that British people do still have a deep sense of justice and fairness and although getting rid of Saddam was A Good Thing, the sense of being lied to repeatedly and deliberately by a man that alot of people had faith in - resulted in a sort of national psychic earthquake. Not sure how to phrase that, but we don't like being lied to.

JohnAmendAll · 08/05/2025 15:15

I don't agree that Brits have "demonised" Tony Blair for the Iraq war.

I think a small vociferous minority on the left have "demonised" him.

The majority of Brits, from my personal observation, are totally indifferent on the subject.

TokyoKyoto · 08/05/2025 15:25

I don't agree that he's been demonised. At the time, there were protests and serious analysis of why he was wrong to do it, and he did it anyway because (presumably) being an ally of the US was more important. Personally I did not agree. He has somehow managed to make it look like water off a duck's back and continues to be given roles which I don't think he's worthy of: he's not demonised.

When he got in, the UK was in a real state, and his first few years were characterised by a lot of investment in actually bringing up the standard of living for those who needed it - or trying to, anyway. In 2010 the Tories basically dismantled much of the infrastructure Labour had put into place. But I remember 97 to 2001 at least being a much brighter time. I don't think he himself had the chops, it was Gordon Brown really.

TomPinch · 08/05/2025 20:06

FourSeasonsLobelia · 08/05/2025 14:50

I suspect you did not mean to phrase it this way, but are you saying Australians are not good people?!

I am not British (Australian) and did not live in the Uk during the Iraq war- or indeed in Australia. I don't have strong feelings in the way I have heard. But I do think that British people do still have a deep sense of justice and fairness and although getting rid of Saddam was A Good Thing, the sense of being lied to repeatedly and deliberately by a man that alot of people had faith in - resulted in a sort of national psychic earthquake. Not sure how to phrase that, but we don't like being lied to.

I'm sure the remark wasn't aimed at Australians at all, just at the Guardian's tendency to depreciate the UK.

I think Australia and NZ are two of the most Anglophile countries in the world but the intelligentsia in both places do have a massive chip about the UK. So it's not surprising to me that the Guardian would publish this article.

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