Do I need a work permit for one day of self-employment in France?

[ArchimedesScrew]

I'm struggling to find this info online. Hoping someone here might know.

I need to send a self-employed carpenter to do a one day job in France. He'll travel one one day and return the next.

He needs to take his van and tools etc.

Lots of info online for employers making applications for their employees but I can't find exactly what I need.

I've called a few different numbers, some ring out and another 'invites' me to look at their website. Does anyone have any pointers for me, please?

Hire a French carpenter instead?

We need to use the one who is familiar with our product. He'll be installing something, he just happens to be a carpenter.

Ask Strictly Fiscal France on Facebook. They will know.

Can he do this job for free so you’re not employing him, and then you recompense him in some other way?

I'm guessing it is difficult to find an answer as it is not possible post-Brexit. Do you live in France? Does he have an EU passport or is he registered as a professional in an EU state?

I can't see how he could be insured for working in France if he is not registered in an EU state at a minimum and I assume it will be difficult to come through customs with a workvan and no work permit.

Thanks @KnickerlessParsons

I think if he rocks up in his work van with work tools, he'll be asked about permits so iI don't want to risk it.

Thanks @Utahthecat

He is British, with a British passport. Someone mentioned to me a work permit. I cant find details for a work permit for self employed people online. Do you know if this is the case?

I'm waiting to join the FB group recommended above.

I'm afraid if detected/investigated this might well be construed as dissimulated/hidden work aka travail dissimule...

(should be an accent there, apologies using wrong keyboard).

.

It's not just the work permit that's the problem, there's the issue of insurance and whether or not the worker is supposed to pay tax and other social charges...

I'm in France, and certainly pre-Brexit it was quite common to hear of unregistered workers nipping over from the UK to perform jobs for the "expats" but it wasn't legit then, even before work permits came into play...

He’ll need a carnet for all his tools as well. If he was flying over you’d probably get away with it. You also need to do a deceleration of posted worker, A1 form etc.

there are some exceptions but carpentry doesn’t even have a tenuous link to any

This is the government portal for requesting work permits but I am struggling to see why a permit for one day would be given to a UK self-employed worker. Are you a French resident that could request the permit?

As notimagain says, there is also insurance, lots of building type work requires specific qualifications (and UK ones not always recognised) and if the work is done on French soil, you need to be paying French contributions. It would probably be a lot easier to find someone in France to do it for you.

www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/R58908?lang=en

You don’t need to pay the contributions as you will get an A1 form done.

much easier to get a French carpenter though

It won't be possible to get a French carpenter to do the job. This person is trained to install this specific item, so it has to be him.

I'm struggling to find what I need to supply him with. Those of you who have mentioned carnet, insurance etc. How do I organise these?

I called TLS who are dealing with visas on behalf of the consulate but I cant seem to get through.

You need London Chamber of Commerce for the ATA Carnet.

I'm afraid this sort of problem isn't unheard of nowadays if you live within the EU but need technical or other product support from the UK...

Does the company who provided the item have a dealer based within the EU?

It’s even worse trying to get French workers into the UK, even if they are very specialist.

The product being installed is manufactured in an EU country. It's the installation that I need to send someone over for.

What would happen in this scenario:

My mate has a house in France, he invited me to stay for a weekend and I offered to help him with some of his house repairs while I was there. I said I'd bring some tools for the repairs I'm helping him with...

There are provisions under the Trade and Cooperation Agreement with the EU that this could fall under - thinking specifically of “contractual service suppliers” and “independent professionals” - where a work permit is not needed. Chapter 4 (Entry and Temporary Stay of Natural Persons for Business Purposes) of Title II of Part 2 is the relevant bit. But it’s complicated so you will need advice, a PP mentioned chambers of commerce and they might be a good bet. They would also need a carnet for all their tools.

I think of you were flying over and it wasn’t loads of tools you would be fine.

if you drove over in a normal car, you’d probably also be fine.

driving over in a transit van full of tools, questions will likely be asked.

Agree with ^.

I'm not recommending the following but objectively if you could keep the work hidden from the neighbours/mayor/the local who is a member of the town's Chambre de Metiers (?spelling ) you might get away with it...but it could get awkward if someone asks questions.

Thanks, I'm not trying to do anything dodgy but the process seems to be quite a headache for one day!

The current plan is to take a small van, rather than a Transit, with a few tools.

Looking at it again from the British gov site you might be okay if it’s after sales installation?
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-to-france-for-work#check-if-you-need-a-visa-or-permit

Could you hire someone in France to do the work and he just goes and watches to make sure it's done right. But not in a working capacity just observing.

Seems like quite a grey area, is the work being paid for in France or the UK, he would at least need a carne for equipment taken in and out again and import documents for anything being left in France. Good Luck.

Years ago we did some work in France and took in a van load of equipment with a carne, got to French customs and realised we had missed a big metal beam off the list of equipment in the carne, fortunately we had so much stuff they didn't notice! We left it in France to avoid getting 'caught' on the way back.

Good spot @jade3081, apparently the employer needs to complete a SIPSI form. But there is no employer, he does freelance work for us. Do you know if this worth splitting hairs over or can we call ourselves employers for this purpose?