Teaching about crime and criminal responsibility in school

[Bunnybigears]

An event has happened locally (which I won't go into as this thread isn't really about that) but it means some young people (secondary school age) have been arrested for manslaughter.

It has been really clear from the many Facebook posts about this that people don't really understand what manslaughter is and seems to think being arrested for this means the police believe they did what they did to purposefully cause loss of life.

These are adults making these comments. So if they don't understand then how can the children involved be expected to understand the consequences of their actions could result in criminal convictions.

I think there should be more taught, especially once children reach the age of criminal responsibility, about issues around crime and the repercussions. Everyone (I hope) knows murder is illegal but there are a lot of other situations that can have very very serious consequences for both the victims and perpetrator.

How many times have we seen at least two families destroyed by one punch outside a nightclub leading to death or serious injury for the victim and a long jail sentence for the perpetrator. Or a young person driving dangerously and killing their friends.

I know teenagers will always have bad impulse control and believe they are immortal but some education could definitely help. I've just asked 15 year old DS what the age of criminal responsibility is and he didn't know.

I teach Yr 5 and I talk about this with my children ALL the time.

I have just asked my 14yo DS about the age of criminal responsibility and he knew it was 10. He could also tell me the difference between manslaughter and murder.
He knows this from school, but also from conversations we have at home about news stories, things on television (real and drama). I’m glad he has covered it at school, but also very much see it as mine and his dad’s responsibility to ensure he is aware of the wider world.

That's what I mean. Even in that small example, the parent shouldn't assume the child will know somehow from somewhere else. He should have been told years ago. By you. And you should learn the difference between 'purposefully' and 'purposely' when you teach him about manslaughter.

Teachers haven't been taught everything they teach either. People can do research and look into things.

This. I'm afraid we'll have to add this to the list of about 75 things that people think are vital to add to the curriculum. Also, who's going to teach it? I'm no expert in criminal responsibility and I doubt any of my colleagues are.

I really dislike the idea that just because children are obliged to attend school you try and use that opportunity to shovel information about everything in life at them.

eduction has to be effective. Forget about how long it would take for a sec- Do you think it would be effective to just tell children about all the crimes they could commit and corresponding punishments? How do you see these lessons taking place? What do they look like? How would you measure understanding?

I think educating people about “one punch”’is utterly bizarre. Shouldn’t we all be striving for a society where people aren’t fighting each other?! Is whether one punch can kill you really the thing to worry about!?

30 odd years ago in primary school in London when we were all about to turn 10 the police came and told us about the age of legal responsibility and what that constituted, how we could go to ‘prison’ or be arrested, sentenced, criminal record etc. I still remember it. (I don’t know if that still happens.)

I’m around the same age as the awful killers of Jamie Bulger so when I was a little older I could see how they were sentenced for the worst of crimes from reading the newspapers.

Along with toothbrushing this goes on the list of things parents can do with their children.

I think the fact that you all had the police come into your school back in the day perfect illustrates the point that this isn’t a fail proof effective way of teaching children about criminal responsibility and crime.

this was still happening then, despite your police assemblies

It is the number one worry if your child is on the receiving end of that one punch.

But you can’t teach your child not to die from one punch.

you can only focus on the people punching people.

and they shouldn’t be doing that either way.

This

They shouldn’t, and as a teacher I have made it crystal clear what the result and consequences could be.

Surely as adults - especially when raising children - it’s your responsibility to find out the information and pass it on?

Not for schools to impart wisdom to children that the adults in their life cba to Google for themselves?

So the one punch is pretty irrelevant then? It’s the same level of risk as say, killing someone by kicking them in the head, or being so angry you can’t stop hitting them when they’re down and beat them to death that way.

the one punch focus sounds a bit like “I’m sure you only intended to have a little fight, but do you realise it’s possible that someone can die from just one punch?”

People should know they can kill someone from any kind of violence, not focus on one because adults find it surprising.

Yes, I’ve made it perfectly clear.

https://braininjurygroup.co.uk/news/partnership-one-punch-uk/

This group comes into schools to do assemblies. This sort of thing is also covered in PSHE.

People always say 'why isn't this sort of thing covered in schools' without actually checking first whether it is.

I’m not sure children need to be taught what manslaughter is, and the difference between it and murder. Because they will know, from about the age of 3 that it is wrong to hurt other people and put them in danger, and from the age of 10 will know that doing reckless and dangerous things will get them into serious trouble.

We all have access to news stories online, we, as parents, see events that are utterly preventable and have devastating consequences.

But how do you school when a parent will be saying if you are "disrespected then you knock him out" or whatever.

So parents not only don't know but will parent in the opposite direction.

Then blame anyone and everything if their precious offspring end up in jail. Except themselves of course.

School cover consent, behaviour, legality and responsibility, they can't cover every possible scenario, you have to assume a teeny tiny level of basic intelligence that individuals are able to cross reference some of these learnings.

It's either jail or the army for some kids.

But why did you assume he knew?

Life needs to be taught by parents. What else haven’t you taught him?

Does he know how taxes work? Have you discussed Andrew Tate? Does he understand the political parties? What the recent elections were for? Does he know about periods? Contraception? STIs?

You cannot teach everything in school. There is plenty of information easily available on almost every subject and parents and individuals do have to self educate

It is covered in our school as part of PSHE. We have visits from the police and a magistrate too (as well as the RLNI).

This.