Thread 22 Starmer - Running up to local elections

[BIossomtoes]

Here we go. Previous thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5305431-thread-21-starmer-casting-nasturtiums?page=40&reply=143731831

TBH I think the whole “racists capturing the Union Jack/Cross of St George” thing has been very class driven, as with Emily Thornberry (who did get slapped down, TBF).

Flags are fine at Last Night of the Proms or the Olympics, but suspect when waved by football supporters.

The national expression that does make me occasionally bristle is national costume in other European countries. I think it was Howard Jacobson who said that people in national peasant costume dancing in fields conjures up images of Nazi and Nazi sympathiser rallies across continental Europe in the 1930s.

Well, I'm not British, I just live here. But I also don't feel proud to be Dutch. The Netherlands are like any other country - with good bits and bad bits. Seeing the bad doesn't mean I don't love my country - I do - but to be proud of it? Nope. Countries are pretty much artificial constructs anyway. I could live happily pretty much anywhere as long as it was in a country that shared my socially liberal and progressive values, and where the language was one I speak fluently (Dutch, English, French or German, though I'm perfectly happy to learn more and work hard on that).

We still have a bag full of union jack flags, hats and other platic tat from the 2012 Olympics

Also have a Dutch flag that we use for football tournaments alongside the St George.

I have never worn a traditional Dutch costume but did have some wooden clogs when I was little. My great grandad wore them on daily basis.

I agree @pointythings . I don’t feel proud to be British or English. I was just born here by chance. ‘National identity’ always seems to swing back round to being opposed to the identity of other nations, or ideas from other people in your nation being suspicious because, oh look! they don’t match the ‘national identity’.
A flag-shagger’s a flag-shagger whether it’s at the footy or the Proms imo.

I think I am patriotic but I don’t believe that the national flag is in anyway imperilled by flying alongside other flags.

Nor will I take lessons on patriotism from anyone that nodded through the illegal prorogation of Parliament or who campaigned and voted in favour of slashing GDP.

So perhaps we all have different views of patriotism.

I agree with you about who seeks to give lessons on patriotism.

An example was the pandemic- I showed care for others living here by my actions to avoid spreading Covid, not by clapping on a Thursday and then my team having a party on some Fridays.

I’m Scottish and pleased to be so. I think most other nations are like this. This international citizen business doesn’t appeal to me.

I grew up in a somewhat more sectarian society than you guys. The British and English flags make me uncomfortable, especially the Union flag as proxy for England ( I'm actually pleased football seems to have rediscovered the St George)and the England team singing God Save the Queen/King. My response is quite visceral.

I think there’s a difference between patriotism and nationalism. I’m proud if Welsh culture and love living here. I don’t think we’re better than anyone else though, and I’m not ‘proud’ to be Welsh. Just fortunate.

Polanski comes across as someone not putting much effort in and attempting to swoop in to claim the prize.

I came across Adrian quite frequently at my previous work (early 2000's) and he seems to be as hard working, dedicated and genuine now as he was then.
I think another poster on this thread has said good things about Carla who she taught as a student, I believe?

They have between them , really raised the Green's profile.

I used to vote Green but voted for Labour in the GE for the first time ever because I believe in Sir Keir Starmer.
I am grateful that the grown ups are back in charge, at least in the UK.
Of course other opinions are available but in the words of our late Queen,
"recollections may vary ."

I will never forget the behaviours of ex PM Johnson, MP's Hancock,, Gove, Patel, Braverman, Kwarteng ,Truss, etc etc etc........... and Cummings.
And I am not alone in this.

I feel the same. I've lived in three other countries and travelled to about 30 others. I'm British by accident of birth, and I love this country. But it has good and bad bits just like any other country. I feel like a global citizen and that I could live in any number of countries.

So if you don't have a problem with it, then why mention it? Especially as you've accused Starmer of 'draping' himself in them.

Probably pissing in the wind here but Gauke talks sense -

In other words, Starmer should be prepared to take on Reform aggressively, even if it risks antagonising some Labour voters who have a soft spot for Farage.

https://bsky.app/profile/davidgauke.bsky.social/post/3loidcloe2b2p

This alongside 100% tariff on film production is not looking good

A new report says that, due to the volume and type of goods the UK and EU export to the US, Britain now pays more on tariffs

Farage is looking as orange as Trump, in the photo that heads that article!

Next thread title? Starmer suffering from Reflux?!

He would. 2 cheeks of the same arse.

The Reflux sounds like a Dr Who episode

Or a Duran Duran song.

Yes that too, I got that song in my head as soon as I typed 'the reflux' 😂

Tory MP's are meeting to discuss Badenoch's future according to the Independent.

If we give Kemi another year it could be curtains for us. There are no policies, no ideas, no strategy and she has no charisma

Who else have they got? If it’s Jenrick their strap line should be “Vote Tory, get Reform”. Out of the 121 Tory MPs, two have already had a crack at the leadership, there doesn’t appear to be much talent amongst the other 119.

I have had a really horrible thought.

Labour is only just ahead of Reform in the opinion polls in Wales. If the worst happens and Reform win in 2026 that means it has control of the Welsh NHS. Would we end up as the guinea pig for Farage's wish to move to an insurance based model?

That’s horrifying @PandoraSocks. I’m not sure that could happen though without Westminster backing.

That really is a horrible thought @PandoraSocks
I’m not sure what the answer is though - I know money etc is devolved but I’m not sure to what extent the Senedd has carte blanche to make structural changes.