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Trans NHS Patients can access every women-only space in London!

85 replies

TheRealHousewife · 20/04/2025 22:46

I’m sharing the following gifted link … I hope it works!

Telegraph article:- Trans NHS Patients can access every women-only space in London

How long before other trusts refuse to comply with single-sex laws?

Im getting increasingly confused as to what protection single sex spaces are being afforded; what protections is there for biological women if the law is going to be so blatantly flouted by such a national institution as the NHS.

OP posts:
TheRealHousewife · 21/04/2025 10:13

mumda · 21/04/2025 00:22

It really concerns me that this nonsense is going to persist more vengefully than before.

Exactly my thoughts!

OP posts:
Loopytiles · 21/04/2025 10:17

Mixed sex wards and hospital services used to make negative headlines and Parliamentary debates in the 90s and early noughties, was deemed v costly to resolve but government at the time set targets etc.

As far as I’m aware, still not resolved, even setting aside the trans issue.

I fear that many NHS organisations will simply revert to ‘open’ mixed sex. For cost reasons.

JazzyJelly · 21/04/2025 10:34

This is going to be a long bloody slog, isn't it?

vdbfamily · 21/04/2025 10:40

One of the issues here, Trans issues aside, is that acute hospitals have such a pressure on beds that they cannot guarantee single sex bays. However, failure to do so is reported on daily and every effort made to provide same sex bays.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 21/04/2025 11:29

Stop creating a drama OP. The deadline is in 3 month and the ruling is new. There were mixed sex wards for many years prior to the advent of the trans movement.

Conxis · 21/04/2025 11:34

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 21/04/2025 11:29

Stop creating a drama OP. The deadline is in 3 month and the ruling is new. There were mixed sex wards for many years prior to the advent of the trans movement.

The ruling is not new, only a clarification of the law. This has always been the law

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 11:37

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 21/04/2025 11:29

Stop creating a drama OP. The deadline is in 3 month and the ruling is new. There were mixed sex wards for many years prior to the advent of the trans movement.

A) All NHS trusts (in England, at any rate) signed up to the policy “Eliminating mixed-sex accommodation,” so in fact, there should have been no mixed-sex wards, long before the SC ruling.

B) All of the Scottish and London NHS trusts audited here and reported by the Telegraph had publicly-facing webpages professing their adherence to the above “Eliminating mixed-sex accommodation” and promising patients that they would be on single-sex wards.

C) All of the same trusts also had — either on webpages which were extremely difficult to find in comparison to the “single-sex” ones, or even only available via FOI — written policies explicitly stating that trans patients must be accommodated according to their feelings and not their sex.

The three points above mean that no matter what the SC said, all NHS trusts audited so far are mixed-sex BY STEALTH.

This is how we get a woman who was raped by a trans-identifying man on a supposedly single-sex ward, being told by the trust that it couldn’t have happened because there were no men on the ward. It wasn’t until the trust was forced to provide the CCTV footage that she was able to prove the trust had been lying to her.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 21/04/2025 11:51

How to be a pedant 😂

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 11:53

What I want to know is when is there going to be a public enquiry to find out why public bodies have blindly followed 'Stonewall' interpretation of the law?

Women have been harmed because of this.

Our Prime Minister even said that it is not true to say that no women have penises and he's supposed to be a lawyer.

It's a disgrace and I'm really angry at how women have been let down.

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 12:01

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 21/04/2025 11:51

How to be a pedant 😂

You think it’s pedantic to point out the cruelty of an NHS trust lying to a woman who had been raped by telling her that she couldn’t have been raped because there were no men on the ward with her?

Personally I keep my claims of pedantry for people who fuss about the use of the Oxford comma, but you do you, I guess.

mateysmum · 21/04/2025 12:14

What really gets me is the lying and duplicity. as the article points out the policies go on and on about how the NHS protects single sex spaces and then in the small print it emerges that NO spaces are single sex at all. It is unlawful gaslighting of the highest order.

AnSolas · 21/04/2025 12:24

vdbfamily · 21/04/2025 10:40

One of the issues here, Trans issues aside, is that acute hospitals have such a pressure on beds that they cannot guarantee single sex bays. However, failure to do so is reported on daily and every effort made to provide same sex bays.

But thats a slightly different issue which rolls in as some policy was/is a TW is never placed in a male ward plus always on the main floor and a woman objecting is removed off a the main floor of the female ward to a side room.

With no comment on what happened if there was no side room?

The policy is to protect the TW and move the woman.

So if the female ward was full and the only bed available was on a male ward the hcp could justify putting the woman into the male ward.

So how detailed was the policy would Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust move an Asian female or her female abuser onto a male ward?

In both cases the hospital would only report on one instance a mixed sex ward : the woman on the male ward.

The TW on the female ward would not be reported.

This is why the policy needs to work through the rights of both. And not play word games about sex and gender.

The NHS boards and the NHS mangers need to decide to comply with the law or face being sacked for gross misconduct because no organisation can allow an (open👀) culture of law breaking.

ForLimeCrow · 21/04/2025 13:00

@TheRealHousewife i will attach a document from 2019 that shows the NHS has been breaching single sex provision for a number of years ,as the guidance has been to place trans people in single sex accommodation according to their gender presentation and their wishes…shockingly this guidance even applied to children ( including when parents were not in agreement). I would like to reassure people that many NHS workers do not take the same attitude of wishing to compromise women’s rights but the NHS and health unions have been well and truly captured by trans activists. I am also supportive of trans rights but it should never have come to the position it has where women’s rights are deemed lesser ( this is particularly important for those of us working with people from religious communities, or with rape and child sexual abuse survivors,who may choose to self exclude form mixed sex services ) . I will also try and attach the rape crisis link that shows quite how many women are let down by the NHS within the mental health system. rapecrisis.org.uk/news/alarming-scale-of-sexual-violence-and-abuse-on-mental-health-wards/
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/05/NEW-Delivering_same_sex_accommodation_sep2019.pdf

ForLimeCrow · 21/04/2025 13:13

I will paste the appropriate section in case anyone has any trouble accessing the linked document ( nhs guidance single sex accommodation annex b ,2019)
”Transgender, or trans, is a broad, inclusive term referring to anyone whose personal experience of gender extends beyond the typical experiences of their assigned sex at birth. It includes those who identify as non-binary.
Under the Equality Act 2010, individuals who have proposed, begun or completed reassignment of gender enjoy legal protection against discrimination. A trans person does not need to have had, or be planning, any medical gender reassignment treatment to be protected under the Equality Act: it is enough if they are undergoing a personal process of changing gender. In addition, good practice requires that clinical responses be patient-centred, respectful and flexible towards all transgender people whether they live continuously or temporarily in a gender role that does not conform to their natal sex. General key points are that:
• Trans people should be accommodated according to their presentation: the way they dress, and the name and pronouns they currently use.
• This may not always accord with the physical sex appearance of the chest or genitalia.
• It does not depend on their having a gender recognition certificate (GRC) or legal name change.
• It applies to toilet and bathing facilities (except, for instance, that pre- operative trans people should not share open shower facilities).
• Views of family members may not accord with the trans person’s wishes, in which case, the trans person’s view takes priority.
Those who have undergone transition should be accommodated according to their gender presentation. Different genital or breast sex appearance is not a bar to this, since sufficient privacy can usually be ensured through the use of curtains or by accommodation in a single side room adjacent to a gender appropriate ward. This approach may be varied under special circumstances where, for instance, the treatment is sex-specific and necessitates a trans person being placed in an otherwise opposite gender ward. Such departures should be proportionate to achieving a ‘legitimate aim’, for instance, a safe nursing environment.
This may arise, for instance, when a trans man is having a hysterectomy in a hospital, or hospital ward that is designated specifically for women, and no side room is available. The situation should be discussed with the individual concerned and a joint decision made as to how to resolve it. In addition to these safeguards, where admission/triage staff are unsure of a person’s gender, they should, where possible, ask discreetly where the person would be most comfortably accommodated. They should then comply with the patient’s preference immediately, or as soon as practicable. If patients are transferred to a ward, this should also be in accordance with their continuous gender presentation (unless the patient requests otherwise).
If, on admission, it is impossible to ask the view of the person because he or she is unconscious or incapacitated then, in the first instance, inferences should be drawn from presentation and mode of dress. No investigation as to the genital sex of the person should be undertaken unless this is specifically necessary to carry out treatment.
In addition to the usual safeguards outlined in relation to all other patients, it is important to take into account that immediately post-operatively, or while unconscious for any reason, those trans women who usually wear wigs, are unlikely to wear them in these circumstances, and may be ‘read’ incorrectly as men. Extra care is therefore required so that their privacy and dignity as women are appropriately ensured.
Trans men whose facial appearance is clearly male, may still have female genital appearance, so extra care is needed to ensure their dignity and privacy as men.
Non-binary individuals, who do not identify as being male or female, should also be asked discreetly about their preferences, and allocated to the male or female ward according to their choice.
Trans men and non-binary individuals can become pregnant and should be treated with dignity while using maternity services.
Further advice on providing services to trans people can be found in Providing services for transgender customers on GOV.UK.
Particular considerations for children and young people
Gender variant children and young people should be accorded the same respect for their self-defined gender as are trans adults, regardless of their genital sex.
Where there is no segregation, as is often the case with children, there may be no requirement to treat a young gender variant person any differently from other children and young people. Where segregation is deemed necessary, it should be in accordance with the dress, preferred name and/or stated gender identity of the child or young person.
In some instances, parents or those with parental responsibility may have a view that is not consistent with the child’s view. If possible, the child’s preference should prevail even if the child is not Gillick competent.
More in-depth discussion and greater sensitivity may need to be extended to adolescents whose secondary sex characteristics have developed and whose view of their gender identity may have consolidated in contradiction to their sex appearance. It should be borne in mind that many trans adolescents will continue, as adults, to experience a gender identity that is inconsistent with their natal sex appearance, so their current gender identity should be fully supported in terms of their accommodation and use of toilet and bathing facilities.
It should also be noted that, although rare, children may have conditions where genital appearance is not clearly male or female and therefore personal privacy may be a priority.”

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 13:19

@ForLimeCrow, ah yes this:

If possible, the child’s preference should prevail even if the child is not Gillick competent.

came up (and shocked us) for a large number of the trusts we have audited.

ForLimeCrow · 21/04/2025 13:25

@TwoLoonsAndASprout its kind of incredible really isn’t it that an official document states this!

IthasYes · 21/04/2025 14:03

I don't have the stats to hand, but recently there was an investigation intl general attacks on women in hospitals and the figures were mind blowing.
Hospitals should he safe
What on earth has happened to the NHS.

ForLimeCrow · 21/04/2025 14:06

@IthasYes this is the link https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p1105…. “Responses to FOI requests from 212 NHS trusts in England show a total of 35 606 sexual safety incidents were recorded over a five year period (2017-2022) (fig 1). At least 20% of incidents involved rape, sexual assault, or kissing or touching that a person did not consent to, although not all trusts provided a breakdown of the type of incidents recorded. The other cases included sexual harassment, stalking, and abusive or degrading remarks. The data show that patients are the main perpetrators of abuse in hospitals. Most incidents (58%) involved patients abusing staff, with patients abusing other patients the next most common type of incident (20%).”

JohnAmendAll · 21/04/2025 14:16

TheRealHousewife · 20/04/2025 23:00

The article is dated today and mentions ‘whistle blowers’. It states all NHS Hospitals in London are refusing to comply with single-sex laws to stop transgender people using women-only spaces. It’s states that out of 28 hospital trusts in London none could guarantee single-sex spaces and some trusts are openly opposed to Government demands.

I suspect the Telegraph is making a story out of nothing. It has form for this.
It's not the paper it was when Max Hastings was editor.
Far from it.😞

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 21/04/2025 14:24

JohnAmendAll · 21/04/2025 14:16

I suspect the Telegraph is making a story out of nothing. It has form for this.
It's not the paper it was when Max Hastings was editor.
Far from it.😞

It is not, remotely, making a story out of nothing. The source of this article is a deep-dive audit of all London NHS trusts performed - for free, in free time - by women on MN - here, on this very site. We have seen the documents. We have all the damned receipts. We did the same for all the Scottish NHS trusts, and we are coming for the rest of the UK.

NOT A NOTHING STORY.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 21/04/2025 14:25

JohnAmendAll · 21/04/2025 14:16

I suspect the Telegraph is making a story out of nothing. It has form for this.
It's not the paper it was when Max Hastings was editor.
Far from it.😞

This ‘nothing’ story as you call it is based on the work of women from MN who have discovered that not just nhs trusts in London but pretty much every nhs trust across the country they’ve audited is in contravention of the equality act

any other laws you think it’s fine for the NHS to be in contravention of?

IthasYes · 21/04/2025 15:03

@TwoLoonsAndASprout I know it's been said so much but just how did we get into this Orwellian utter nightmare.

How many fingers am I holding up

A full deep investigation needs to happen ideally I'd trust jk with it but I doubt she would want too, across all systems and government run bodies

Edited; hadn't seen that amazing mn did this already ❤️❤️🌹

Bunpea · 21/04/2025 15:50

Throughout the discussions here and elsewhere on this topic, special consideration seems to be given where the potential victim of a rape or sexual assault in a hospital is of a “religious community”.

If I were subjected to rape or serious sexual assault, I’m pretty sure I would find it devastating and life changing. I doubt it would be any less devastating because I am atheist.

Aren’t all women and girls, regardless of religion or belief, equally deserving of protection?

KnottyAuty · 21/04/2025 15:58

Hello! Yes it is! Thanks for posting OP.
The group of whistleblowers and concerned women are all mumsnetters. We are over on the Feminist board doing an NHS Policy Audit.

Our working theory is that all NHS Trusts adopted gender self ID policies unlawfully some years ago. We aim to prove this is/was the case prior to April 16th as quickly as possible working region by region around the country.

We finished Scotland in March and London in April. We’ve moved on to the Midlands now and hope to complete the whole of the UK by summer at the latest.

Once the audit is completed we can Freedom of Information request the new policies to find out who is complying - or not.

We have seen letters sent to NHS employees which comfort trans employees because the Trusts made unlawful promises. There have been no staff letters we have seen so far that give any acknowledgment of the upset that women have faced for years. Unison have publicly stated they intend to ignore the Supreme Court ruling!

To be clear we think there are no NHS single sex spaces left in the ENTIRE COUNTRY. Can you help us prove it?

If you can chip in with an hour of your time and just do one trust, you’ll be a big help.

One trust takes about an hour of google and making PDFs. You upload it to an online account m. You don’t need to register and I don’t know who you are so there’s no security risk.

GC women need you! 😍

Trans NHS Patients can access every women-only space in London!
WomensRightsRenegade · 21/04/2025 16:02

It’s mind boggling that ‘gender feelings in heads’ could ever have superseded biological reality (and women’s safety, dignity and comfort).

I spent a few nights in hospital last year and kept thinking of how horrifying it would have been if a man had been brought into the ward. I’m sorry but the discomfort of one individual doesn’t get to trump the discomfort of everyone else. Or at least it shouldn’t

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