Does it sound like nephew has ADHD?

[4pmwinetimebebeh]

We have been on a big family holiday for 10 days and I am knackered. I have two DC 5 and 8 who are generally pretty well behaved, NT, have their moments but generally good kids. My nephew is lovely but is so so hard work but I’m reflecting on the week wondering if he has ADHD or whether as his parents say he’s ’just a little boy’.
He is constantly moving- dancing around, kicking his arms and legs out, flailing around. It’s literally constant which is fine sometimes but in restaurants or by a road it’s stressful. He’s sooo loud from 6am until he goes to bed. He doesn’t follow instructions and needs asking so many times to do anything. When he gets told off (eg told to not flail next to the road for the hundredth time or told off for running near another family in a restaurant) he immediately cries and says sorry again and again. He bursts into tears at almost everything and is very emotional.
I know it’s hard to tell from this but it’s exhausting to be around. His parents just ignore all the behaviour unless it’s quite extreme so I wonder if a lot of it is parenting, they tag and in and out napping a lot so I think they are burnt out too.
Do I just not say anything and avoid family holidays again? Hope he grows out of it?

It all sounds normal to me. It's also very possible that because both of his parents are teachers he gets his way more often (and very little opportunity to burn off his excess energy) and so is doing it all now while on holiday. He may also be struggling to handle a holiday with your (younger) children as others might be expecting him to behave in a more grown up way than he is.

Do you realise that a child with ADHD often is unable to control their movement and stimming in the same way a NT child can. Constantly telling the child off would be like telling them off for being left handed.

When you have a NT child who can respond in a NT way in social situations it's lovely to congratulate yourself of your fantastic parenting. I know this because my first child is NT. My second child who has ASD and ADHD tries very hard to respond in a socially acceptable way, in fact she tries much harder than her older brother has ever had to. If I constantly corrected her rather than being incredibly proud of how hard she tries that would make me a really shit parent.

Do you realise that a child with ADHD often is unable to control their movement and stimming in the same way a NT child can. Constantly telling the child off would be like telling them off for being left handed.

Do you know how stupid you sound with your sneery “fantastic parenting” comment? I’ve got an NT child myself.

OP hasnt really even described any “bad” behaviour. She’s just described some typical ADHD traits (always on the go, inattention, difficulty following instructions). You’re the one making the value judgement.

Children with ADHD find it hard to impossible to just “behave themselves” in an NT way. Trying to discipline them in the way you might do a NT child is exhausting (for both parent and child) and futile. That’s not to say you don’t have behavioural expectations and boundaries but they have to be contextual.

For example my primarily inattentive presenting ADHD DS doesn’t follow instructions not because he is “disobedient” but because he doesn’t hear them or process them like an NT kid. so I need ensure I have his attention before I ask him to do something, break instructions down into manageable parts, body double with him etc.

My other primarily hyperactive presenting ADHD DS runs about not because he is “naughty” but because he needs a physical outlet for his brain running at 100mph. So if he needs to sit still he needs something to fidget with or other ways to keep engaged (we play endless rounds of ‘rock paper scissors’ together if we are stuck in a queue for example).

They’re both caring, kind, helpful, thoughtful “good” kids who are just neurodivergent.

OP while I am wary of armchair diagnosis you have described some very typical ADHD traits - hyperactivity (running and flailing about), inattention (not listening) executive processing difficulties (not following through with instructions).

Also worth saying that the strong emotional reactions to being told off is also very typical of RSD (rejection sensitivity dysphoria) which tends to come hand-in-hand with ADHD and can present as being extremely sensitive to criticism.

At times it feels like we have to pretend every child has a syndrome to ensure that parental accountability can be ignored. I don’t doubt there are a few genuine cases but the alleged numbers nowadays are quite simply ridiculous.

He sounds like my sons best friend, he has constant energy and very emotional. I don't think he has ADHD, his mum is full of energy and has always been quite full on so I feel he's used to being very stimulated constantly always on the go, also might get tired hence the emotion. Also you said the parents ignore the behaviour so it's not surprising he never listens.

Or maybe he doesn't listen because his parents ignore his behaviour and gets emotional when he is told off as he's not used to it?

In fairness sorry they don’t ignore his behaviour if he’s bothering other people or if he’s genuinely ‘naughty’ eg if he lashes out occasionally and hits someone or does something silly like all the kids do. They ignore the constant flailing and jumping around which I do get as it’s constant. I agree he’s generally a well behaved kid and when you get his full attention he will follow your instructions. Last night he had snuck outside and was just running around the garden chatting to himself. He was safe so we left him to it and SIL said he often does that in the evenings at theirs. When he’s free to roam and run he’s fine but it’s when he has to be still or calm he’s hard work!

I wouldn’t raise this with my sibling at all, I’d expect them to feel like I was criticising their child. They are teachers so should be quite switched on and failing that, the primary school should be flagging behaviour that they find concerning.

Out of interest what sex are your DC?

Haha this sounds EXACTLY like my hyperactive-ADHD DS. He goes off in his own little world where he is randomly leaping and jumping about - it’s kind of like physical daydreaming. He particularly does it when he is tired (he tends to wired not sleepy).

And honestly letting him out into a safe garden to run it off is exactly what I would do. Save trying to control it for public spaces and when it’s dangerous.

Complete nonsense. More people are being diagnosed now as thankfully we have better recognition and appreciation of neurodivergence.

it’s taken me three years since my own ADHD diagnosis (and both of my children being diagnosed) to fully accept and embrace the fact I have ADHD and I’ve not just paid for piece of paper to excuse myself being lazy and useless. Attitudes like yours are part of the problem.

And I am pretty confident I do more active parenting of my two neurodivergent DSs than the average parent of NT children and I absolutely have high expectations of them in terms of kindness, respect, honesty and perseverance but no amount of parenting will parent-away their neurodiversity.

Like I say some cases will be genuine, most won’t.

You only have to look at the stats for certain conditions over time to see that some people clearly move from one to another when it suits. The number of people signed off work with back pain fell off a cliff once mental health reasons were accepted. Are we really supposed to be believe that 90% of those claiming bad backs were really mental health sufferers?

With all conditions there will of course be those who are genuine and they should be supported however the current numbers being quoted are absurd.

Recent stats indicated that a quarter of the UK population claim they have some degree of physical or mental disability. That is a ridiculous figure and cannot possibly be reflective of genuine issues.

I have no idea where you get you assertion that “most won’t” be genuine. I can assure you that the vast majority of people with an ASD or ADHD diagnosis are not getting signed off work or have any welfare entitlement as a result so quite what you imagine the benefit is of getting some kind of “fraudulent” diagnosis I have no idea. People are having to stay on NHS waiting lists for years or scrape together the cash for private assessments, it’s not easy or fun.

I think I have a pretty good “neurodiversity radar” these days having been around a lot of neurodiverse adults and kids and while I know numerous people who I am confident who would meet they diagnostic criteria for ADHD or ASD but don’t have a formal diagnosis, I do not know a single person who has a diagnosis who I do not think warrants one.

(and for completely unrelated reasons I am one of the 1 in 4 people counted as having some form of disability but a casual observer wouldn’t know it when I am holding down a full time job, appear outwardly healthy and am very rarely absent from work)

I also completely relate to this. I remember going to a friend’s house and she had been in the kitchen while her son played quietly in the living room. She had left him with Lego while she cooked lunch.

this had never happened in my house. The living room would not have survived had I done this!

It actually sounds like a common tactic for dealing. With ADHD kids - even if they aren’t aware that’s what they’re doing.

I am very strict on DS not annoying other people, being nice to other kids, not damaging or breaking anything or putting himself or others at risk.

but I have let him move around, jump about when other parents would probably expect their child to be quiet. It’s just not worth the tears and upset.

I think you do have to pick your battles. Otherwise you’d be shouting at them constantly which is the root of many self esteem issues with ND people

I have a friend who has an 8 yrs old DD. She is never told off, is overindulged and spoiled.

The DD is manipulative if told off by others and turns on the tears. She is NT.

this is completely different behaviour from a ND kid who gets emotional when told off. For one, it’s usually because they are genuinely remorseful and ashamed. That’s not the actions of a spoiled child.

This! And appreciating how hard it is for them to be still when their brain is telling them to move. My hyperactive DS was at a Remembrance Day service last year and he stood absolutely perfectly for the whole hour, more so than anyone else. I was so proud because I know how intensely difficult that is for him!

Avoiding being in a constant cycle of criticism is really hard but so important- I’m really working on trying to reframe how I speak to my DSs to avoid this but it’s not easy. I do think diagnosis is really important for this reason as it’s so valuable for understanding

I can’t remember where the referral came from - DS2 was under care of SALT/OT/pead from age 2.5 but he had an observational visit from a specialist ADHD nurse in school when he was around 6/7. Her presence was explained as whole class observation so he didn’t know she was really just observing him. Her report was illuminating. She timed him over an hour. He had a max attention threshold of 30 seconds, constant fiddling and making noises, getting out of chair, not following instructions, not responding to name etc etc. She strongly suspected ADHD and advised trial of medication and further investigation of ASD. He’s 19 now and at local uni but she wasn’t wrong - has been officially diagnosed as ASD/ADHD for over a decade now.

ADHD has to be observed in more than one setting and I found that school setting trumped home as the demands were different. Especially in KS2.

ADHD means parenting in a different way but parenting doesn’t cause or cure or prevent ADHD.