Fifth of state school pupils have a private tutor at GCSE level

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From the article below in the Sunday Times. When do we accept that the education system is failing our children and what can we do about it?

Is this any different or better than children attending private school? I know i will do everything in my power for my child to get a decent education but I know some posters on the private schools threads seem to think it's immoral to give your child any kind of advantage over others.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/gsce-a-level-private-tutoring-revision-camps-wxfmf629

Dd1 did not click with science. Lots of the content was taught remotely during Covid and it just didn’t work for her. She got 3/4 in her mock gcse. Shit hot tutor and hard work on her part she got 8/8 in the actual gcses.

Dd2 learning a language not offered at her state school privately with a tutor. We were going to get her a tutor in maths but it’s not necessary now as her saintly maths teacher has set up extra sessions and mathsy kind sixth formers go along as well to explain things. Dd has been going to those extra sessions and gets a lot out of them.

But what about students who have both worked hard and are excellent at a subject, shouldn't they be recognised? The possibility of grade 9 at gcse is what's keeping my girl going at the moment. If it was pass/fail for her she be like what's the point? I'll be honest she could have passed most of her subjects in year 10.

We should actually be supplying a better range of subjects and assessment types that students can do well in. I agree that we need a fairer system but pass/fail doesn't suit everyone.

Of course there should be a range of grades above 5, but under the current system, what is a ‘3’ or ‘4’ is a moving target. That is unfair. I know kids with spld that would have passed on last year’s mark, but failed the following. This means that at college they have to keep doing resits. I can imagine the impact on your self esteem to constantly be resitting on the verge of passing.

This doesn’t stop grades 5-9 being awarded. My dc perform well at school, generally receiving 8 and 9s. But what constitutes and 8 and 9 changes every year. Not so devastating at that grade, but when the difference is at a pass or fail level, it really is.

Why do you think all students are like your son? What do you think happens to the students that don't respond well? what about students who aren't in set 1 or2?

This is literally the problem with the education system, assuming all students are the same!

I teach in the best school in my area and my behaviour management is excellent but the reality is that all comprehensive schools have children who don't care/ can't do the work.

I teach an options subject that is mixed ability so no sets for me! One of my gcse classes has 1/4 of students with a reading age of less than 10. The gcse paper has a reading age of 15. They can work as hard as they like and I will make sure that they do, but they won't do "well" according to gcse scores so mostly they act out/opt out.

My second subject is vocational, they've chosen it as they think it's easier. It's not. So I've got a group of all lower ability. I can assure you many if them act out if they can't do it. One of those students has a reading age of 5. Obviously I differentiate the work but he still has to read and answer exam questions and this subject has coursework too. But I think anyone would act out (as he does) if they're constantly failing at the first hurdle. A small group setting it 1:1 I

So Obviously there are children who can't do it well and these children often fail and there's nothing we can do for them in an exam. Although on the flip side there are bright students who just don't care. So yes there are disruptions in lessons! Imagine if your son came home and told you he'd been threatened to move down and you'd told him oh well it doesn't matter, GCSEs are not important. Not all parents are the same either!

Everyone I know teaching is going above and beyond every single day. But there's only so much we can do. Students are people with outside influences and personalities, not robots who do our bidding.

And just because your son is motivated and works hard (good for him btw, I'm not being sarcastic, truly sounds like he gets it, thanks to you) it doesn't mean a smaller class size wouldn't benefit him. And it also doesn't mean people never interrupt his lessons!

FYI I have taught for over 20 years in Hampshire and Surrey.

I think it’s on the rise in the better schools because parents are incapable of getting their children to revise independently, whereas if they spring for a third party tutor, the children are much more amenable to it.

@2025mustbebetter do you think that alternative qualifications like BTec and Cambridge National (?) Would be better than exam based subjects for those pupils?

Yep my son has a maths tutor and she has improved his maths no end. I just feel kids are a number in school and they don't get the 1:1 they need.,

I got an English tutor for my daughter, she’d had 6 different English teachers in KS3, plus Covid hit in year 7, school didn’t recognise that she had dyslexia and the teacher she got for GCSE genuinely didn’t seem to care about her attainment. She was getting 3s in her year 10 mocks but had got top grade in year 6 SATs!

For a further 4 subjects she had 2 teachers leave during the gcse years (so had 3 teachers for each subject). The teacher recruitment crisis is really biting in some areas. I’ve sent my younger child to a private school as the expectations of him in state were so low.

I think a pass standard would be fairer. A system where 1/3rd will fail maths or English before they even sit the exam is not fair as it impedes progress to higher levels.
Above that feel free to grade on a curve.

However I personally think 9s are unnecessary at GCSE level and add unnecessary stress to many, especially at schools where 9s are predicted. When A stars were the top grade they were perfectly fine, and 'recognition' for the more academic student comes at A level and beyond. GCSEs are meant to be 'General' not provide boasting rights to the parents of the most academic.

Furthermore the addition of 9s has led, in some quarters, to 6s and 7s being devalued. People thinking they aren't good results when before Bs and As were celebrated.

If that's true, why does anyone fork out to send their children to private school?

What are the stats for tuition for privately educated dc?

Plenty of private & state schools also do extra classes to boost dc's results eg before & after school & lunch time.

My thought exactly. Why should poor behaviour be more acceptable for the lower attaining sets!

I worry for my younger child as he approaches secondary age. He’s always struggled with schoolwork and I am worried for when he’s probably in the lower sets at our local state comprehensive. His older brother is there and doing well (it’s a good school) but he says the behaviour in lower sets can be disruptive. If anything our younger son needs a calm environment where he can focus more than his older brother does.

These are the parents that can’t afford private school but are willing to find the money to undo some of the damage of the state system. Most are doing so out of necessity not some master plan to work the system. Private schools offer far more than a basic education.

Indeed. Everyone who has a child at private school could have chosen to send them to state. But they didn’t. Instead they moan on about (some, by far the minority) state educated children having tutoring. Which is something they could easily choose for their own children if they think it offers an advantage over private. But they don’t. They’re just worried their private advantage might not be as big as they hoped.

This - I have one child in private due to her Sen needs - our local high school is in theory much better she just can’t handle the large class sizes. I know the local is better because her twin brother goes there. And to help him we pay for tutors. State plus tutors much better than private unless maybe you are talking some very top private boarding schools.

Interesting question and unknown.

Though, ironically, the decision to privately educate your children will often be for the same reasons other people are using tutors?

We can’t afford to send 3 kids to private school. But we can afford to pay a fraction of that cost for extra curriculars e.g music lessons and tutoring if it’s needed. The state school experience can be very different even within the same school depending what sets you are in. DS1 top set for everything has had good teachers, studious classes, extra help when needed and not needed any tutoring. DS2 has some SEN and has struggled - he was in set 4 for maths with a useless teacher and a chaotic class. He has gone from set 4 to set 2 in 18 months and from a predicted grade 4 to an 7-8. He had some huge gaps from missing the end of primary during Covid which school didn’t seem to have identified and the tutor sorted out in a couple of sessions. Of course it would be great if every subject was being well taught and all classes were quietly getting on with their learning so every pupil could achieve their potential but it’s not reality.

Haven’t rtft but I went to a private school and my neices and nephews go to private school. Everyone - EVERYONE - also has/ had at least one tutor, starting from primary level. Not taboo obviously because people are already paying for education so why not pay some more? Perhaps it is just accepted fact that most people need 1-1 tuition as well as group learning?

my dc is at state and hasn’t needed tutoring yet but I fully expect it to be necessary for GCSEs.

My youngest has tutoring for maths because they have been behind age related expectations in primary....and continue to be so in secondary. Primary were no help so I feel we are just plugging one of the many gaps in the underfunded and overstretched system (which I work in). If it means my dc will pass gcsc maths when they get there then it will be worth every penny.

If I could afford it I would have paid for tutoring for my daughter this year. She’s had so many supply teachers for GCSE subjects that isn’t isn’t doing as well as she is capable of as she’s not had proper teaching in some subjects. On top of that you have disruptive pupils spoiling the learning for others.

@Stoneyard that's my experience too & I know loads of teachers who tutor private dc.

Only on MNs do I see the narrative that privately educated dc are the "poor relations" who can't afford tutors or to live in expensive homes.

My youngest has a tutor (dyslexic). I'd like my oldest to have a tutor too, but thought I'd leave it to GCSE years, as she's in top sets anyway. Lots of our friends and family have tutors for their children too. I think it's better value for money than private education.

I am an SEN teacher and I hate setting kids. In one school I taught at they only set for maths and triple science and the results they got were great. They did creative things like had one boys set for English, taught by a particularly engaging male teacher, it worked really well. If you set you get a bottom set with a mix of SEN and disaffected poorly behaved kids that no one wants to teach. Sadly my kids state school did set and my dd did okay in top sets, but ds in bottom sets got really good at entertaining his peers. We pulled him out and he’s now in private, still in bottom sets, but tiny classes with high behaviour expectations.