Cub Badges - Can Parents "Self Certify"

[outofbreath]

We have a range on outdoor hobbies that map directly to Cub badges. Is it reasonable to get photographic/video evidence of things weve done outside of cubs and 'request' the badge?

For instance, we cook outdoors a lot and I'm sure I have photos of my son lighting a fire, cooking on the coals etc. Would they take my word for it with a photo?

Also there's a 'Time on Water Badge'. As far as I can tell you get a badge for 1, 5, 10, 20, 35, 50 trips on the water. I could compile a spreadsheet with 35/50 times he's spent the required time on the water boating in some way. Is that all it takes?

Finally there's a paddle sports badge. Some of it is practical, some questions. I could easily video my son answering questions and doing each aspect. Is that enough? Is it overkill, even, would they just want me to go down the list of requirements and tick them off?

I don't want to be a pushy parent (and take up leader's time) but is requesting a badge every couple of months earned outside of cub meetings a "normal" thing to do, and can parents just self cert all this stuff? (I'd try to pick things the Pack weren't going to do with the kids - perhaps that rules out campfire cooking.)

Next question, do Beaver Badges carry over to Cubs and do Cub Badges carry over to Scouts?

100% yes. Do you have the OSM app? It tells you exactly what is required for each badge. You can take photos etc and sent it all to the leader. Double check with the leader first but we've done this for several badges.

Not all units use OSM to send photos. For DS we send an email and then send him in with photos so he can talk about things that he has done.
It's always best to speak to the leader about how they want the information

Sorry, I had no idea you could use the OSM app to send photos! I was just, talking about using normal email too.

On OSM there is a dedicated function to complete badges at home.

I would speak to your leader first. They may already have planned to complete some of the badges next term.
In our group self certification is permitted for activity badges, but I'm not sure about staged badges.
Part of the joy of doing these activities is experiencing them with a different group of people too.

Thanks, yes I have OSM so I know what the requirements are. I'll try to have a chat with a leader. They have a lot on their plates, but it sounds like they won't find the question too unusual.

I wonder if it's on tbe website, but not the app. I see details of badges and the partially completed badges but there seems no mechanism to add evidence or manage them at all.

Also have you thought about volunteering with your DC's group? Nowadays volunteering with Scouts doesn't mean being there for every session. It sounds like you have a lot of enthusiasm for outdoor shared activities.

Badges at home is a paid for addition to the app. Asking a leader is the right thing to do.

I access OSM on my phone, online & have the option.
Click on your child - badges - the badge you want to complete & it gives me the option in the bottom right corner.

Only the blue staged badges e.g time on the water/swimmer move up the groups (and are laboriously resewn each time).

Yeah, I'll be careful to avoid things the pack could do and I'm going to forget cooking for exactly that reason. I thinking of quite specialist stuff that takes time and kit that I don't think the pack will ever do.

I'm pretty familiar with the problem. I instruct an outdoor activity with a kids 'badge' progression of 4 badges which we drag out over 4 years between 8 and 12 purely to provide focus to the activity. We've have parents who send their kids away for a fortnight to get all four badges in one go which is easily done. Then they proudly turn up at our events with their highly qualified child. Then the poor kids spend 3 years never getting presented with a badge while all the other kids get one per year. I've started to print off certificates for them but they know it's not the same. It's not a degree, it's a chuffing kid's badge to keep them interested. 🤦‍♂️🤣

A few things to look at here.
Yes you can absolutely provide evidence of badge criteria you complete outside of Scouts. We would normally ask you email in the evidence or post it on our Facebook page, photos, videos and any instructor or certificates that might be relevant. We would ask them to explain any technical stuff to us in person (that way we can gauge what they actually know)
On your time on the water part, we would only count the times during Cubs they have been on the water. Also if you had been out for the day we’d only count it as 1 session.
Do think about the fact it only goes to 50 and then it’s done, so you will effectively make that badge redundant for Scouts.
The staged badges carry over to each section, so as above if you have a Beaver who gets TotW 50, that badge is finished. They can wear it on their uniform but they won’t earn a new badge in each section.
We absolutely do water based activities with our Beavers, Cubs and Scouts so it maybe something that’s being covered in our program. Although not to the same degree as you appear to be doing.
We have had parents do a lot of stuff at home only to then discover we are doing it in sessions and their child has to repeat everything.
Its a fine balance, but it would be best to chat to
your leaders. Some will be fine, others may say they will only accept it if it’s done during a Scouting activity.

On your time on the water part, we would only count the times during Cubs they have been on the water.

Many thanks for a detailed reply. When you say "during cubs" you mean while the lad was a cub, not actually a cub activity?

Do think about the fact it only goes to 50 and then it’s done, so you will effectively make that badge redundant for Scouts.

Really good point. If I do this I think I'll pick a a smaller selection of trips (5?) and that leaves him several badges to get in future. (I guess there are badges with a number on them? 1, 5, 35 etc?)

Also thanks for pointing out that the ToTW last into Scouts - so we need to leave things for Scouts as well as cubs. That something I "knew" but hadn't thought through. 🤦‍♂️

He really needs to avoid badges that he might do with the group as a cub or a Scout.

Yes, I think about it a lot - the kids are so enthusiastic and I think I'd have some pretty good ideas for activities. I just don't have time for the things I already do, though, so will have to save it for the future. :(

If you have an idea maybe chat to the leaders. I'm a Guide leader and from time to time we get parents with specialist skills or ideas volunteer to run a session or two. These are great and add lots of variety to our programme. Yes we're always on the lookout for more regular volunteers but one off sessions are also brilliant and a great way to get involved to see if you enjoy it. This also gives the leaders a welcome evening off planning.

Is there any particular reason you want him to do extra badges? Can't he just do whatever badges the group do and then you won't have any worries about him repeating things? Or has he said he wants to do x/y/z badge?
I have two in scouting and only once did an extra badge at home for one of my children who doesn't find school easy but said he wanted to do a particular badge which involved writing a diary. I had really struggled to get him to practise his writing. So there was a particular reason for supporting him to do that one.
Other than that I've just left them to do whatever the group is doing.
As they get older school is more challenging,.lots of other extra curriculars tend to involve either exams (eg instruments) or competitive selection (sports teams, auditions) and I think it's lovely to have something which is mainly about turning up and joining in (while obviously involving a level of challenging yourself).

I have to confess this is 100% driven by me, he doesn't care about badges.

My reason is: He's been on and around boats of all kinds since he was 8 months old. He has a wealth of experience and capability way beyond his years. During those years he was always too young for the badges/certificates so he missed out while his older sister and others all got 'public' recognition.

So this is a way to give him recognition for what he can do and has done for the first time after a lot of time lacking it.

Having said that, this thread has made me aware that I need to save plenty of "recognition" for later. (By which point it will be totally up to him what badges he does, if any.)

Can't he just do whatever badges the group

Yes, that is the default, but there are one or two badges that match his/my interests and make sense outside of the group and that I doubt they'll cover.

Many thanks for a detailed reply. When you say “during cubs” you mean while the lad was a cub, not actually a cub activity?

Yes that’s correct so between 8-10 years of age. My eldest is not far off Scouts and could get his climber and martial arts badge the moment he moves up, however he would need to do the criteria whilst he was a Scout. However be mindful that some leaders/groups will only give badges for activities done whilst actually at Cubs/Scouts.

(I guess there are badges with numbers on them? 1, 5, 35 etc?)

Yes that’s correct, when you reach the next level you earn the next numbered badge.
When he reaches Scout level there are Activity badges he could concentrate on as well. Sea Navigation, Power Coxswain, water activities. It all depends on what your focus is.

Could you offer to come in for a session, possibly with equipment or to offer to help run a badge. We have a very good friend who is a Ski instructor and she comes in and does level 1 Snow sports with our YP. Paddlesports level 1 could be completed on land, if you had a canoe to bring in.

Yes you can, speak to the leader. (I am a former Cub leader).

Some things - nights away and hikes away off hand - have to be part of a scouting activity now (there was a period during and after the pandemic when this rule was relaxed).

But some things can only be done away from Cub meetings - eg: the musician staged badges require you to reach grade 1/2/3 standard and perform in public concerts for levels 2/3/4 respectively.

Is his section a sea scouts?

If not would be well worth seeing if there are any locally (ours is and we're in Birmingham 🙈).

They will do water activities much more regularly, if that's something that floats his boat (ber-dum-tshhh)

As a Cub leader...
If you get the criteria for Paddlesports for example, or sailing, or swimming... yes, I will allow you to send me evidence.
But not for Hikes, Time on Water or Nights away. Those must be Scout activities. Sometimes I allow school trips as well (if for example they can't go on a Scout activity as they are on the school trip!)

I'll also count these activities for the Adventure challenge badge.

I'm happy for Cubs to do badges at home, but do prefer to know in advance, so I can say what evidence I need. And there is always the risk they will repeat it at Cubs... I'm doing in gardening with mine this summer, but one did it at home last year.

If you do have a special skill, do offer to help with a session... one of our parents is a Chef and helped with our practical session for that badge recently, it was brilliant as he showed them small tricks to make stuff easier.

Ahhhh, thanks, so Time on Water is one of the things likely not to be appropriate for what I'm suggesting. Shame - it was the best candidate. 🤦‍♂️

Thanks for the comment and thanks to everyone else. I'll talk to a leader now I have an understanding of how it all works.

I have been thinking about this a bit more and this is not in any way directed at the OP but as a general principle I wonder if it would be fairer if kids just do the badges they do in a group (unless they were absent and missed one that is possible to catch up at home). Otherwise the kids with supportive and financially able families not only get the benefit of the extra activities they're doing outside scouting but also get credit for it in scouting. And at primary level anyway they are also likely to be the ones whose parents help them with their school project to make a bridge and get to take their gymnastics medal up in school assembly etc. One of mine plays an instrument and would qualify for musician but he's already got the confidence boost from passing the grade exams and playing in various performances so I am not sure he needs extra praise at scouts for doing that. And he is only able to do that because we have organized and paid for the lessons, exams etc. Anyway, as I say that was more of a general pondering of how the system works.

They would have to get rid of a lot of the badges... we can't do the skating, or the snowsports, or the martial arts, or the Equestrian....

What we do ensure is that every child that attends regularly (so just missing the odd meeting, and attending the summer weekend camp) will do everything required for the Challenge Awards and therefore the Chief Scout Award.

Martial arts is less elitist and there will always be exceptions where parents work as an instructor or happen to live near a facility etc but in general equestrian and snow sports are not accessible to the average kid who would like to have a go or the average scout group. So maybe we don't need those badges? Maybe there should only be badges which a group could have a reasonable chance of achieving?