Police arrest parents who slate school on class WhatsApp

[noblegiraffe]

A primary school sought advice from the police after '“a high volume of direct correspondence and public social media posts” that had become upsetting for staff, parents and governors.' and the police response was to send 6 officers to their house to arrest the couple making the posts and put them in a cell all day.

Although the couple sound like an absolute pain in the arse who should pack it in, 6 police officers seems like a teensy bit of overkill, particularly with the amount of crime currently going uninvestigated. But with schools faced with spiralling numbers of vexatious parental complaints, something needs to happen. I think some unions are starting to offer legal advice and template solicitor letters for this situation.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/d8c8566b-99b1-45c6-814b-008042d74a3a?shareToken=6deab807d148cf7695ed4d9d3664c51e

No evidence or insufficient evidence?

The problem is many teachers (including SLT) are very wedded to the system. They become very institutionalised and can’t see how toxic the environment they work in is. They develop a sort of Stockholm Syndrome with the system. Either that or they go the opposite way and leave as, like me, they can’t be part of it any longer.

Either there is evidence of the alleged crime, or not. The police concluded that there is not. Since the school had insisted that all communication was conducted by email every single communication that had taken place between the school staff and parents for the previous 6+ months was in writing, all of which the police reviewed. Therefore, it’s very apparent from the fact that the police concluded that there was no case to answer that there was indeed no case to answer. There is nothing subjective here, different accounts of verbal conversations to which the police were not privy so had opposing accounts of events. The entire thing was set out in writing and they read all of it and concluded that the school’s allegation was false.

Why are you trying to defend people who not only have broken the professional and ethical standards set by their professional body, but also multiple laws and statutes, and have then made false allegations to the police?

That’s what’s most hard to fathom about this thread: what is the motivation of the posters who continue to try to assert an unevidenced position, when all available facts indicate the opposite is the case, even when the police’s public statements have corroborated this?

Police statement in the Times article says 'insufficient evidence'.

Thank you for replying. That makes sense. You would have to be very blinkered and brainwashed to blindly defend such behaviour even when there is so much evidence that the school staff in question were in the wrong and actually they themselves have admitted (accidentally) through their public statements that in fact they were in breach of the law. I could just about understand staff at the school in question being so institutionalised and in denial as to unquestioningly go along with SLT’s version of events even when it’s this implausible, and even been disregarded as nonsense by a police investigation, but for so many teachers posting here to be supporting the teachers in this case and disregarding all established facts about it seems very strange and extreme, and indeed worrying if this is the level of rationality and objectivity of people who are entrusted with teaching children. I’m also extremely disturbed by the lack of pretty much any acknowledgement from any of the teachers who’ve posted about the impact that this must have had on the disabled 9 year old who was othered and then driven out of her school. It’s almost like they think schools exist to serve the teachers, not the pupils, and that the children’s needs and wellbeing are a side issue. One poster here even described the child as “collateral damage”, in this public forum, with apparently no sense of shame.

It really is shameful and so disturbing, and I’m sure not at all what decent people like you could ever have anticipated as a working culture when you chose this profession. I’m sure there are many others like you, also, who were so shocked by it that they left, because what other option would you have, if you have any moral integrity? In fact one of my ex-colleagues was an ex-teacher, who quit for similar reasons and retrained in my profession instead. It’s just so incredibly sad for the many, many families and children country-wide who are treated in a similar manner (minus the police usually, but otherwise very similarly!) and that any decent people entering the profession, or becoming Governors, will of course leave as this disgusting and illegal behaviour by school staff becomes more and more widespread, so the very worst, immoral, dogmatic and unquestioning, unintelligent dregs are left and standards of governance continue to decline every year as a result. Some of the comments here have been so lacking in any rationality and unwilling to engage in any factual analysis, inventing things to suit their narrative that simply aren’t supported by any evidence that is available to the public, that it almost feel like trying to reason with members of a cult.

I hope you’ve found a fulfilling career now where you didn’t have to compromise your integrity or decency, but thank you again for speaking out about this. Parents are constantly gaslit, have mud slung at them for daring to speak out, so it is powerful to hear such honesty from a teacher. So many families have been bullied like this to such an extent that they’re terrified to do so, so it is really good that these brave parents came forward and did so, and it’s really important that decent people who’ve working in the profession themselves and have seen it first hand from the staff side also speak up as you have. I don’t think these toxic cultures can possibly change until more people speak out, these people are so used to being able to bully people to get their own way as you say that things will not change unless this is forced on them so it needs many more parents to speak out. Perhaps a “me too” type movement where parents can publicise their accounts of this anonymously without the threats to their children and even their safety in their home that this couple experienced, to make the case for why a proper regulator is urgently needed to convince these toxic teachers that the law does actually apply to them.

You say that this was your son's school, yet you clearly don't know what happened.

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you and I don't believe that this happened as you say.

One poster here even described the child as “collateral damage”, in this public forum, with apparently no sense of shame.

I’m not sure you understand what that poster meant as they had a perfectly reasonable point.

Yes. So they have reviewed the evidence which - given all communication was via email at the school’s behest - means the police were in the very rare position to be able to review all of the evidence of exactly what happened, not having to untangle any subjective of potentially conflicting versions of events because they could review the entire thing, in writing. Having done so, they concluded there was no case to answer, and that there was no evidence a crime had been committed. This is what “insufficient evidence” means in a legal context: the allegation was reviewed and no evidence was provided that demonstrated that a crime had been committed or there was any legal basis upon which to charge the alleged “perpetrators” with the alleged offence.

In this case, given all of the communication between these parents and the school for over 6 months before the arrest was in writing, all of which correspondence the police have reviewed, this indicates that the allegations the school made were completely false as it is not possible that an offence could have been committed on the phone or verbally or in person and this could not be proved, rather that no offence could possibly have taken place at all because the only possible way it could have happened was in these emails and yet having reviewed them the police found nothing to back up the school’s false allegations.

Ironically the school’s own “communication policy” forcing the parents to communicate only by email (which itself was illegal in these circumstances given the child had SEND) actually meant that no doubt was left: either there was evidence of the alleged “crime” in the emails, or the alleged crime didn’t take place. The police reviewed the emails. The police then dismissed the allegations as unsubstantiated nonsense because they couldn’t find any evidence to support the allegations, at all.

It is really quite baffling that there are still posters here trying to defend the school.

@TheCastleDoesNotReply

well I home educate my own children now so make of that what you will!

Dont get me wrong there are some good teachers working so hard in our schools. But they are working within the confines of a rigid system and one which doesn’t put the wellbeing of children first. And as I said before they often become wedded to the system.

Problem is there are also some terrible teachers and for some reason management seems to attract the crap ones. Another big issue as I see it is that modern parenting is totally incongruent with the 19th century school system we have. So they rub against each other constantly (as seen by this case). Not to mention that the whole thing needs an overhaul but that’s a whole other thread.

That is very interesting to know, that you home educate. You couldn’t really make a stronger statement than that about the education system!

I’d do the same for my children if I wasn’t a lone parent. Until my son manages to build his planned cloning machine so one me can earn the money to pay the mortgage etc and the other one can do the teaching, sadly it’s not feasible for us.

I feel so sorry for the decent teachers. My own children’s teachers are excellent. How they survive working in such a dysfunctional system I do not know. We are so grateful for them. It is the system itself that appears to be rotten to the core, the complete lack of governance, oversight and enforcement of laws and regulations and, as you noted, the fact that it seems the most immoral and incompetent people are often those who seem to be promoted to SLT or even as Head Teachers, and perpetuate the toxicity for children, their parents and no doubt also the poor staff having to work with such people in charge.

The decent and law-abiding teachers who are trying to stick it out should be very much in favour of parents taking action to get a proper system of regulation put in place because it would no doubt vastly improve their working environment as well if there was a proper regulator who stripped the professional qualifications from the Heads who conduct themselves in this kind of manner, and any members of SLT who have been accomplices in such illegal behaviour and facilitated/ condoned it.

I don’t blame you for getting out. It is horrific for children and parents but to have to go to work every day and work with people like this as your management, who shouldn’t even be working in a school let alone involved in running one, must be soul destroying. Perhaps a “me too” type website for parents to post the reality of things - because no doubt staff are even more bullied and intimidated by these SLTs/ Heads than parents are, to prevent them from speaking out - is the only way forward to amass the huge quantity of evidence of wrongdoing that these bullies continually try to suppress by threatening parents and malicious false allegations against them to deflect attention, just like they did to the couple in this case. This is probably what it will take to make MPs to face up to the reality, address the issue and replace OFSTED with something resembling a ton of bricks, which seems to be what is required at this point to crush this out of these slippery, slimy, nefarious Heads who are wrecking the lives of many children and families and also, it seems, the careers and working lives of many teachers as well.

I doubt they’ll ever get the message that the law applies to them and the school isn’t their private Kingdom to be run for their own benefit without the metaphorical equivalent of an anvil dropped on their heads from a great height, having got away with this type of behaviour for so long. You hit the nail on the head when you said they think they are untouchable, hence the outrage when anybody challenges them. The action required to change it at this point will have to be very severe and zero tolerance with very harsh penalties for non-compliance and breaches.

And absolutely agree about the 19th Century approach as well. All designed to churn out obedient little office/ factory workers. Definitely don’t teach them to think for themselves. Make them all dress like little clones. Follow the rules. Do not question. Do the rote learning. Don’t do any critical thinking. Everyone must study exactly the same curriculum even if they have completely different talents, skills and abilities. And above all, all creativity must be crushed out of children, as it is dangerous to have anybody around who might have the cheek to have any ideas of their own.

How ironic given the world for which such an education system was designed is slipping away, and there’ll be little work for the obedient little worker drones this factory farming is designed to churn out by the time current primary school children reach working age. The system is designed to destroy and crush innate skillsets in the precise areas where jobs for humans might still be available in a few decades’ time and which humanity actually needs to have if it is going to have a hope of surviving the enormous changes that are coming.

So what do you suggest?

Sorry, but on what planet do parents get edged out of their child's medical care by a school, and on what planet are the details of a child's medical condition amd treatment shared directly with a member if school staff, without the parents as 'intermediaries'?

@TheCastleDoesNotReply 100%, having reviewed all the communication between the parents and the school the Police came to the conclusion that the parents’ actions did not meet the definition of either harassment or malicious communication so nothing illegal.

I too am amazed that posters feel it was right for the school to involve the Police in this case.

And all because of one man's massive ego.

You can only be fired immediately for gross misconduct. If that happened to an entire school that would be national news.
Do you have a link to the OFSTED report/news story.

For a variety of conditions medical teams come in to speak to teachers of that student.
We don’t currently have any students with epilepsy but we do have students with diabetes and their teams come in to train teachers/speak to them.

I agreed with your second post and expanded on What happened re SEND as per the thread.

Maybe you should take your own advice and read it properly.

Maybe consider the Bradford Mob then!!

But no, that’s a step too far given the colour of their skins and religion! Of course nobody will touch them.
TWO TIER POLICING in full view for the world to see.
And a teacher still in hiding. Where is the outrage about that! A family destroyed.

Where are you getting “violent sexual comments” from? You mean calling the acting head a “control freak”? That’s not criminal.

people should be absolutely free to discuss others and state their opinions on a private WhatsApp group provided they are not advocating violence or anything unlawful which the couple in this case were not. You might not like people saying unfavorable things about public bodies but we should have the right to do so.

presumably they came in to educate about the condition itself given it affected several children. Each child is affected by a condition in a different way and their parents will generally be the best people to explain it to the school.

in this case banning the parents from the school for no good reason clearly had the potential to cause harm not just to them but to their child who was SEN and had epilepsy. All because they didn’t like being criticized! Absolute madness

Sadly there are a group of a few teachers/ teacher union types who post on mn who advocate for teachers no matter what - even in this case where a school banned parents of a vulnerable child from the grounds then got them arrested because the parents criticised them on a private whatsapp group.

Obviously most teachers are not like that but it is shocking that there are some people teaching our kids that think arresting parents for lawful criticism on a private chat is not just ok but is a good thing!

This. Not just defending the school but getting stuck in insulting the parents who were wrongfully arrested even posting unflattering pictures of them. Really quite extraordinary that adults behave like that

The father as a former governor politely raised corruption in appointment of the new head. The school then banned them from the premises despite there being no good reason to do so and this being potentially harmful to their vulnerable child. When they criticised them for it in a private group chat they got them arrested by the police!

the parents are not necessarily “heroes” but they’re certainly victims of some atrocious behavior from the school and police.

And now those posters have gone very quiet…

I call it Educational Stockholm Syndrome.