What would your brief synopsis of toxic masculinity be ?

[Bartg]

In particular for use when discussing with pre teen/teen

just wanting to have this chat and explain what exactly toxic masculinity is. But I am not all that sure myself. I have made a couple of points below. Would really appreciate any further advice from others experience

men thinking they can have a big strop and women should pander to their every need

men believing they are entitled to certain things and it’s ok to throw their weight around (either literally or metaphorically) when they don’t get what they want

Men believing that women and children exist solely to serve them. Not seeing that women and children have rights/needs of their own that are worthy of respect.

This is good. Thanks

I think it’s actually much more nuanced than how you’re describing it. These examples make it out to be a masculinity that is bad for women and children. But it’s also a masculinity that’s bad for men too.

This is exactly why we see so many boys drawn to all this incel shite. Because it sells the idea that there is only one right way to be a man, good looking, tall, able bodied, assertive, neurotypical, wealthy, gets sex whenever he demands it, etc and that anyone who isn’t that isn’t a real man. But there are so many lovely men and boys who don’t fit that description and don’t want to, would never demand sex, would never think they are better than a woman because they have a penis, etc who don’t get society telling them they are great how they are. In academic circles, we often use the term hegemonic masculinity, and though these are slightly different things, reading up on hegemonic masculinity might be illuminating.

I’m definitely not being “but not all men!” here, but what I’m trying to say is that it can be really helpful to also give examples of how it impacts men because these help to make clear that the problem is not the masculinity bit, it’s the toxicity. Also because ultimately the most successful intervention is likely with boys and men rather than girls and women (e.g. all the boys who aren’t any of the above, getting sucked into incel garbage online).

Men's egos, sexual and general selfishness, their fear and competitive nature (whether internally or externally) all putting women and children at risk, as well as other men and themselves too.

I think it's a fine line to walk. I have sons and to me there is a bit of danger of slipping into "oppression Olympics" whereby boys feel shame just at the fact that they are male and therefore oppressors and potentially toxic. I don't think that's a helpful message to give either.

I also feel there is a lot of muddling of messages with series like Love Island, MAFS etc and the dating culture that women expect not to pay and expect to be treated "like a princess". I feel like back in the 90s when I was dating it was much more pragmatic and egalitarian. I expected to pay my way because I am in a similar financial situation as the guy I am going out with. I didn't need to be bought.

I want my sons to know that women and girls are strong people too. That women deserve respect and support and that lasting love is primarily about compatibility, friendship. Beauty is fleeting. Character is important, and integrity, and liking the way they look, but once you love someone you see a person, not a body. My DH still thinks I am gorgeous even now I am a size 18 with stretch marks on my tummy from pregnancies and greys in my hair. I think he is gorgeous even though objectively I can see a bit of a paunch and double chin. The most important thing I learned - from a male friend, actually - is that it's important to learn that when you really "make love" it's with a person, not a body.

And that it's rubbish that most women are so shallow as to only want to be with a "chad" - and if they are, then that's not the right woman for them anyway. Just a cursory glance around one's friends parents should dispel the idea that only "chads" get the girls. I don't understand people's critical thinking skills really.