TW. Lady who buried newborn in Gullivers world

[GreenCandleWarmth]

Hello all
Obviously we have to be careful what we say but I've been reading this trial and the notes. This lady gave birth 28 years ago. A concealed pregnancy and dumped the already deceased baby on the edges of a theme park. She was only found in 2023 when her son was arrested and his DNA marched that of this baby. How can you have kept this a secret all this time ??

But my understanding is that this woman was only described as having PND retrospectively? There’s no evidence of the state of her hormones 28 years ago?

the courts have ruled it wasn’t murder

She should have gor a custodial term. She managed to dispose of the body with calculated plans. Other young girls were suspects and she still didn't come forward. And a mature woman in a marriage. It was wrong the level of leniency applied in this case.

I agree. I was surprised to read the verdict. Many mentally ill murderers are not treated this leniently on MN. The little boy could had been adopted and lived a full life. She took his life.

As am I, what evidence are they using for the reason of PND? If noone other than her knew about it, are they taking her saying how she was at the time only?

People even now hide PND because they are ashamed. They feel people expect them to be full of the joys of a new baby and don't want people to know that they're struggling to bond, hating being a mum and feel a failure. You see everyone else does parenting so well...

People can make huge efforts to hide it.

My feeling is that there would be nothing to be gained from locking this woman away. I’m sure she has suffered, and the public naming is probably the greatest punishment of all.

the things that don’t sit easily with me though are the fact that PND must have been agreed retrospectively, as she wasn’t diagnosed at the time, and surely when you’re talking about hormone imbalances, it’s something which can’t be determined 28 years later.

And of course the suffering of others: most of all the innocent baby because asphyxiation must cause pain. That child could have lived his life.

And also the local people who came under suspicion and were even arrested. It’s hard to fathom how anyone can stand by and watch that. I read in a news report that local teenage girls who’d been absent from school the time the baby was born were questioned … it must have been terribly traumatic for them and their families.

The whole situation is terribly sad.

I wonder if her son has any children. I would be very wary letting her babysit incase crying etc triggered her. It must be awful for her son.

I can't imagine this woman was in her right mind or calculated in doing this. A thought through decision would be to have an abortion or give the baby up for adoption. Even without her husband's knowledge. These aren't the actions of someone thinking 'normally', at least not for somebody who as far as we're aware has never behaved in any other similar way.

I suffered prenatal depression in the past and went into denial of my pregnancy. If I didn't think about it or acknowledge it then I could pretend it wasn't happening. For me, this only really lasted for the first trimester and by 20 weeks I was feeling much better and the rest of the pregnancy and after was fine. Usually I like to think I'm pretty sane apart from that episode. However, I can well imagine a more extreme version of this and where it could potentially lead in these extreme circumstances when confronted with the baby.

I do however think she should still have had a custodial sentence, due to the extreme actions and due to the passing of time and still not speaking up for all those years after. Although I can extend empathy to her, I still feel that it clearly deserves further consequence. But maybe there are more circumstances that we're not party to.

Sorry, yes. I was just highlighting the chemical difference between new Dads supposedly getting PND and new Mums. There would be no way to detect the PND 28 years later, especially as it's little to do with actual hormonal levels per se. It's how your body reacts to the fluctuations in those levels.

I actually wondered at first about the public naming and showing a photo as it must be awful for her family.

But I actually think it’s very important to make this public, given the fact that local women were under suspicion. Imagine if the case was reported without naming her, just that a non-custodial sentence was given. There would undoubtedly be some people still thinking ‘no smoke without fire’ about totally innocent women who were arrested or questioned at the time. For their sake alone it’s very important that the woman who killed the child is identified.

It was likely post-partum psychosis, surely. If she ever regained good mental health, I imagine she was horrified by what she had done. I believe she developed a personality disorder after this event so, sadly, her mental health never recovered.

Exactly. I don’t feel sorry for her one bit.

I think the right sentence was given. Nothing would have been gained by putting her in prison and she has to live with what she did which must be incredibly hard … I can’t even imagine. I hope she gets some help now.

Who knows if she was psychotic? Is that not just an assumption? Can you be psychotic and line around you notice? It sounds more cold and calculated to me and the be able to hide it for so many years without cracking too.
Why are we not feeling sorry in a similar way for people with mental health illnesses hearing voices and murdering people in the street as happens? What’s the difference exactly?

Well, I suppose one big difference is she hasn’t committed further crimes and isn’t deemed to be a danger.

a mentally ill person who kills someone in the street may not be convicted of murder if they really aren’t in control of their actions, but they’ll likely be locked in a secure institution, possibly for life.

im not making any excuses for her actions btw, just trying to understand the context. For me, it’s the subsequent behaviour that I find hard to fathom. She was by all accounts a very good mum to her older child, so she clearly knew what a good mum looks like and how she should behave. That’s the strange thing. Even if she was completely out of control and in a psychotic state when she killed her baby, she hasn’t remained in that state. It’s hard to understand why she didn’t confess before she was found out.

Yes, that’s all I’ve read. The articles I read didn’t all mention PND. Most seemed to be vaguer and say she was suffering from depression due to the stress of looking after her son and working full-time. Her son was only a toddler when she got pregnant again, but she didn’t harm him.

I did wonder if the MH support she was instructed to take for 12 months as part of the court sentence was to ascertain her current MH, examine her alleged personality disorder and if there was any risk to other babies and young children she might come into contact with.

It's not okay to kill a newborn baby regardless of the circumstances. What was his life worth? She had options. She wasn't a teenager. It's important that this baby gets justice to make it clear that his life mattered. In the future women will be deterred and hopefully make better decisions.

But men can still suffer equally grievous mental health issues - look at the male suicide rate. And whilst they may not suffer physically in the same way as women they can still suffer PND.

If a man was already suffering poor mental health caused by financial issues for example, something like male PND and the increased stress of being the main breadwinner with a new baby on the scene and a partner not working could quite easily push him over the edge. In this instance I don't see him receiving the same degree of sympathy as a woman would.

I know the family. Can we please disable this post. The conjecture on here is just disgusting.