Employers - "GCSE or equivilent"

[IShotTheDeputyItWasMe]

TD:DR - if my key stage 4 son does "GCSE equivalent" courses, will he be disadvantaged as employers won't know what they are?
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My son has the option to take a mix of 8 GCSEs (maths, science and english) and Cambridge Nationals at key stage 4. The courses will suit him. They are more "vocational".

However, I worry that wider employers will see a Cambridge National and not know what it is. Especially as the top grade is written as D*(2). This is the equivalent of level 9 GCSE. but will people who did GCSEs see it as a DD grade? He is perfectly capable of GSCEs 8/9s.

No disrespect to anyone with one/working towards one (clearly I'm happy for my son to do them) but will people think they aren't the equivalent level or understand the grade? I'm doing an apprenticeship at work and will end up with an "equivalent to 2 A Levels" qualification but really, in my case, it's meaningless. It doesn't translate that way and no one will know what it is.

If he decides to go into work after school (rather than college or an apprenticeship) will potential employers at the paper sift, prefer someone with a level 5 GCSE in eg computer science or someone with a Cambridge National D* (2) grade in computer science?

If he goes into the career he wants, then the qualifications will be recognised.

I know after a few years, very few people will care much but he needs to understand what he is signing up for. My current job asked for a degree but only wanted to see my GCSE passes in maths and English.

All we are interested in for our apprentices (a trade) is have they got their maths & English or Functional Skills which is the GCSE equivalent.

For higher level apprentiships then employers would really only be interested in A levels/Btecs

I've never done GCSEs or A-levels as I went to school in Germany and my grades are "equivalent of" GCSE/A-levels. I can only speak for myself but this has never disadvantaged me in any employment I sought in the UK. I just assumed the employer looked up what the equivalent grades meant.

If he follows the school into 6th form he may do Cambridge Technicals, not A Levels or BTecs.
When you're doing the paper sift of applications, would that make a difference?

I'm glad you've never been disadvantaged.

I wonder whether employers have the time to check any qualifications that don't recognise though? In one place, we had hundreds of applications for one job. The first part of the paper sift was looking at qualifications and I can't imagine the recruiters had time to look up the equivalents, particularly if they see a "D" grade.

An apprenticeship would be engineering/manufacturing type stuff rather than a trade.
He always wanted to work on "green systems" eg wind turbines. But he's 14 so that may change.

My suggestion would be to write the D as Distinction rather than D, to avoid doubt.

The D stands for distinction, so just write Distinction instead of D.

Children in Scotland don't do GCSE either in the main and there's no direct like for like comparison as intakes are different. I did Standard Grade which is the nearest thing to GCSE, now replaced with National 5. It was never a disadvantage for me applying for jobs in other parts of the world.

As long as they ar fully accredited Level 2 they are equivalent

All he needs to do is add a small "this is equivalent to GCSE Grade whatever" on his CV or as someone suggested put "Distinction" rather than "D".
As Scotland has always had alternative qualifications to England, Wales and NI employers such be aware that not everyone has GCSEs.

At the risk of sounding insular and stupid... I didn't even think of Scottish qualifications. 🤣 That has put my mind at ease because there are plenty of Scottish people who work in England.

Obviously, there are lots of other nationalities too but Scottish is a common one and like you said, there is no set qualification.

I know he may work around the world (I hope he does) but I was thinking of school leaver/entry level jobs which would be in the England.

We don't offer higher level apprentiships in general but to me a Cambridge technical is the same as a Btec. If someone comes to us post A levels they still have to start on Level 3 because of the nature of our industry, it is regulated.

I would hope that anyone in recruitment would be aware of the different qualifications.

Btec grades are M, D and D* so I'm sure they will be understood. At A-level I would say maths and physics A-level are much harder than any 'equivalent' qualification. He is still doing 8 GCSE's though so I wouldn't worry about him doing a couple of other things that are equivalent at this stage. He's keeping his options open.
In the case of comp sci is the CN course more programming based? If so it would probably be more interesting and enjoyable (well DS would have preferred it anyway!).

Thanks everyone for putting my mind at ease.

I've realised that whilst this was a genuine concern, some if it was qualification snobbery if i really look at myself. When I was in education, everyone did GCSEs, A Levels and a few very specific NVQs. If you did anything else, people always assumed it was because you weren't academic enough and that was a bad thing. There also wasn't as much choice (in England).

Obviously the above is absolute nonsense. I know as an adult it is rubbish. I also know it's a good job that the person replacing my boiler next week has vocational qualifications! Realisticly that is much more useful than my degree! 🤣

If an employer has dozens or hundreds of cvs, they're really not going to start looking up something they don't readily understand, especially if most of the others in the pile can "tick the box" of recognisable qualifications.

Fair enough for a big organisation with a big HR department who should know all the different options and would recognise all likely qualifications on the application form, but for smaller organisations who've not seen something before, they'll really not bother looking it up unless barely anyone else has applied.

I'd also wonder how it would be "read" by computerised online job application systems where no human looks at the applications until the latter stages. Depends how it's been programmed, but if it's been pre-set to check certain criteria, then anything outside the parameters it's been programmed for will automatically be rejected.

Personally, I'd always go for the safe option of following the crowd, keeping it simple, and doing what most people do, i.e. just the usual GCSE route. Why make life complicated, especially if there's no compelling reason to go against the norm.

Good advice, but on some computerised/automated online application processes, you don't have the "text box" space alongside the qualifications boxes to put it. You'd have to put it in "additional information" boxes somewhere else which may or may not be read/understood by the computer.

I think it depends on what kind of work or further study he'll be applying for.

Unless he'll be looking at very academic entry routes, the main thing is he has Maths and English at decent grades and IMO they need to be GCSE not equivalents.

I didn't go to high school in the UK either and on my CV I used to write the name of my qualification, then 'equivalent to...' next to it. It never caused an issue, but that was a long time ago and employer's were less fussy and more willing to let people start at the bottom and work their way up.

Most employers who require maths and english use the government published conversion sheets to check unfamiliar qualifications, and Cambridge is listed there, so there should be no disadvantage. Or they just skim the form, see Maths and English and that's a tick off the box, without looking it up.

If your son is perfectly capable of grade 8s amd 9s at GCSES (so very bright) and is interesred in engineering is there a reason why he isn't considering A levels and then an engineering degree? Surely that would vastly improve his earning potential compared to an apprenticeship.

There are lots of different types of engineering and academia by itself is not always the best route. For instance, I'd imagine that building computer systems to link a wind turbine to other systems is fine done predominantly through a book but something like designing the blades and understanding the environment it is in etc is better done hands on. Plus if he ends up being one of the people who abseil down a north sea turbine, then he will definitely need practical experience!

He'll be doing theory but also getting irl experience.

Like with a plumbing apprenticeship, you'll do the theory in a class and get tested etc but alongside that, you'll go out and do actual plumbing. No one will ever learn plumbing well purely from a book

Also, local companies (some of whom are world wide) have very, very strong links with the school and offer opportunities to the students that they may not otherwise get.

If he gets the right grades at key stage 4, he automatically gets into the 6th form. If he gets the right grades at 6th form, he is automatically offered a place on any course at the local uni. The local uni does various engineering degrees (including world leading research) but also does a huge range of other degrees, if he decides against engineering/manufacturing.

So I don't think he is limiting himself with this. I was just concerned that people outside the industry wouldn't know what the qualifications are but it doesn't sound like I should be overly concerned by that.

Maths, science and English are GCSEs so that is straight forward.

Maybe for the reason that students have to prove their skills and GCSEs are well known in the UK?

I was chatting to a 3rd year apprentice the other day. He went to a UTC college for Y10-11 so I suspect he did Cambridge Nationals, and then apprenticeship from 16. Extremely impressive young man, so passionate about his work. Apprenticeships are often incredibly competitive and I would lay money that he beat a lot of applicants who offered straight GCSEs.

I think a Distinction star will sound good anywhere and it would be a really strong move to go with the course that plays to your son's strengths. There are no guarantees but to me it sees the upsides more than outweigh potential risks.

That sounds really positive. It's always nice to hear stories of children/young adults finding their passion. 😊