7.4 million people claim some form of disability or incapacity benefits

[MidnightPatrol]

Given the various back and forth of discussion on the reduction in disability and incapacity benefits, not much data on the debate has been shared - it’s a mainly emotional debate.

So for context, the figures:

• 7.4 million people claim sickness benefits of some kind
• The total number of claimants has increased by a third in five years (up 1.8 million)
• 1 in 10 working age adults claims, and 1 in 12 school aged children
• 1.2 million people aged under 25 claim sickness benefits, a rise of two thirds in 5 years - 1 in 15 claiming something
• 4 million adults claim sickness benefit of some kind, up from 2.8 million in 2019. Two thirds of that increase is people under 50.
• 2.5 million people claim UC health benefits, up 500k people this year alone - in 2019 less than 500k people claimed this
• 1.8 million have no requirement to look for work
• Sickness benefits for working age adults are expected to cost £70b by 2030 - a third of the cost of the NHS

It’s not surprising that there is a huge rise in mental health issues list pandemic. Similar happened after Spanish Flu at the end of WW1.

There's a big age gradient for disability - people become disabled over their lifetime so there are a lot less disabled children and young people than e.g 40 and 50 and 60 year olds.

I suppose for the people not on benefits and paying tax they would rather their taxes go on something that benefits them and their family ie the defence and protection of everyone in the country as a whole. Rather than just benefiting specific individuals. The good of the whole rather than the good of individuals. I feel very sorry for those unable to work and on benefits but I wouldn't want them to be prioritised over a proper defence.

Totally agree with you about HS2 and Net Zero. Bin that and spend on benefits for those that really need them.

A diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean someone is going to want to claim benefits. DS2 is incredibly able and academic, but also very probably autistic (like me), and I'm pursuing an assessment for him in case the wheels come off at secondary and in later years, precisely so that he will be able to access appropriate support if he needs it, rather than crashing out of school/ university/ work, creating long term issues and then having to rely on benefits.

Who says I knew names? GDPR would prevent that

Apparently there are a huge number of young people on benefits that have never worked and so their lives are wrecked in a benefits trap. It's a growing and tragic problem.

my son isn't 'sick' he is fucking disabled. HTH.

20 years ago, it was unusual to have a disabled child.

10 years ago, it was getting more routine to have a disabled child.

2025, and we have local families with (for example) 4 kids, with 3 of them diagnosed and claiming DLA. Or 2 kids, both with diagnoses and on DLA. With the parents claiming PIP too. So 4 or 5 disabled claimants under one roof. What are the odds?

We should have less disabled people now, not more. Back in the 80s we had:

1. People disabled by WW2 still alive
2. No antenatal testing or terminations for medical reasons - far more Down syndrome and disability from this. Equally nobody took folic acid in pregnancy - more spina bifida.
3. People who had spent their life working in coal mining or other harmful industries, including asbestos, with work related conditions if they survived at all
4. Far more smoking/passive smoking and drinking
5. The aftermath of thalidomide
6. People with MH issues still alive stemming from WW2
7. People disabled by things we vaccinate against now - many people damaged by polio, measles, rubella.

We cannot keep a straight face and say ‘life is worse now; we had Covid; we should expect more disabled people than in the past’.

You assume defence spending is the Ferrari in your example - others might regard the increasingly disability and sickness bill the Ferrari.

I'm sure many people do believe that. It's very easy to see essential support that you personally don't need as a wasteful luxury.

If there are people who are unquestionably lying and defrauding the state by taking benefits that they shouldn't, I'd happily strip them of them, sanction them and punish them; but we can hardly call ourselves a developed nation if we happily throw our genuinely disabled and vulnerable people to the dogs.

What next: we're spending more than we can afford on children, so anybody with a surname starting with A-M will still get child benefit, but everybody else... sorry, we're broke? All pensioners are allowed to live to 75, but after that it's either lose your state pension and pay your own way or be euthanised if you can no longer afford to live independently, as 'we just can't afford it', according to our state spending preferences?

That its the definition of TOTAL INSANITY?

It's not growing out of shoes constantly. It's wearing through shoes every two weeks.
These are not normal levels of costs.
Do you think being disabled should mean you can't afford to eat, heat or get around? Is that the society you want to live in?
Basic economics - money in the pockets of people struggling and often living in more deprived areas = more money back in the local economy.

Does anyone think this is affordable or sustainable?

Putting aside who is deserving/ entitled/ in need or who is “scrounging”, I just don’t think it’s affordable. We need to find a cheaper way of supporting those in need & that might not look pretty. Bigger use of day centres to pool resources perhaps?

I do wonder whether the government could get creative. Something like you can claim your state pension from 60 if you are a carer, as you’re saving the state money.

There are a lot of administrative vacancies in government departments. As part of my job, I have to phone the courts, HMRC, probate registry etc. it’s frequently over an hour on hold being told they’re short staffed. Could the government get creative & make some WFH, flexible hours roles for those who can’t manage a traditional job but perhaps could, for example, do 3x 1 hour slots throughout the day answering the phone from home? I feel like they could set up a flexible work agency or something where they work with people to discover what they can do rather than writing people off?

I’m just spitballing but this isn’t affordable & I think we need to get creative with solutions

Someone upthread mentioned countries such as Italy not seeing an uptick in disability benefits post- Covid. Probably because Italy is a country that relies a lot on the invisible labour of women family support.

When I say administrative vacancies, I mean that they need more administrative support, not that there are currently the vacancies advertised! I know the budgets are why they’ve cut admin staff. But if they’re paying it out in welfare anyway, they could do it

I suspect the main problem is that the UK benefit system in general is really, really generous. There is no way anybody in my home EU country would be able to claim any benefits for mental health if they have not been recently sectioned. We also do not have such variety of benefits with different names... no equivalent of PIP or UC. I know of a child benefit and disability benefit only. And it is not easy to get a council home either. Some people here are saying that if the benefits are stopped, there will be a rise in criminal activity, homelessness, etc. Strangely, it is not a case in my home country - low crime, very safe, hardly any drug or knife crime. BUT there is a very strong police force with much bigger powers than here (thinking about some shoplifting...? Forget it). So how people cope? They simply work. I have never known even 1 person who has not worked in their life. I have a relative who's daughter was born severely disabled and was bed-bound her whole life. But even that lady worked as a teacher her whole life and never left her job (she and her husband paid for a carer who came and helped during the day - the government benefit wouldn't cover that). You've got a benefit-culture problem here in this country.

Pair of trainers from Primark are £15. An extra £30 a month in costs isn’t worthy of benefits in my view. Nor is £100. These are things working people should be absorbing even if it’s a bit painful. We can’t afford benefits for everyone.

Yes I’m disabled. Yes I have costs. Yes I pay them myself. No I’m not rich.

That's not to mention all the kids in special schools you won't see day to day. DD1 is 19, has 1:1 at college. She'll never work, or if she does, the cost of the support she will need will far outstrip the cost of her benefits.

DDs 2&3 go to a special school with 1:1 teaching. Whether they will be able to work depends on their mental health recovery.

It’s not about your personal situation though (difficult though I am sure that is), it’s about the broader trend of a growing number of claimants, needing to claim larger sums of money - to the extent it is unsustainable for the state.

And - it will collapse if the root causes aren’t resolved and changed. Which certainly won’t help your son either.

What happened to all your children, if it's not too invasive and inappropriate to ask?

All 3 of your children go to special school? This isn’t a value judgement, but 30 years ago this would’ve been unheard of.

The big question is why is this rise in disability not being seen in other countries?

And why did coincide with in-person assessment being stopped and the rise of Tiktok advisers on how to say the right buzzwords on the form?

Even on Mumsnet, people get told to write not about their typical day but their symptoms on their worst day. That is fraud.

I have a friend who has managed to convince dr's both her kids have adhd and she has mental health problems! She claims PIP for herself and DLA for both kids plus carers allowance and a disability car. She also gets UC. She is absolutely rolling in it.

You’ve given figures in isolation without any thesis on how to use them.
If you wish to start a debate on whether benefits should be targeted for cuts please provide a comparative analysis for tax dodging and evasion by corporations and those earning very high figures.
An update on recouping the billions wasted to pandemic fraud would also be useful eg VIP lane PPE contracts.

No, I never said that 1 in 12 children are ‘severely disabled’. In fact I literally pointed out that DLA has different rates and only severely disabled or impacted children will receive the highest rate- which is not 1 in 12 children.

My point was that many of those included in the 1 in 12 will only receive low-rate care which is based on needs and care significantly less than a severely disabled child. Parents receive a payment less than Child Benefit.

So assuming an average class of children has about 2 pupils with some degree of disability or health issue that meets the criteria for at least low-rate DLA really isn’t particularly shocking to me.

That comparison doesn't really work as overall they won't be a net drain on taxpayers. They just won't pay the full tax that HMRC want.