Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Anora- should sex work continue to be destigmatised?

139 replies

mids2019 · 06/03/2025 06:37

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/mar/05/anora-missed-chance-to-spark-real-change-say-sex-workers

I am conflicted on one of the results about this Oscars success is that a spotlight has been thrown in sex work leading to calls for more decriminilastion and normalisation of sex work.

Though I have a great deal of sympathy for those whose circumstances that lead into sex work isn't a greater legitimacy of sex work a greater legitimacy of sex work itself including the clientele?

So if you hear sex workers calls for more legal protection and customisation then you have to decriminalize the activities of men surrounding this profession. Although possibly a financial lifeline for some women surely we must take into account the impact on society as a whole into accoint?

I would have to think deep and hard about being an 'ally' to sex work.

‘We didn’t see who she is’: Anora missed chance to spark real change, say sex workers

Sean Baker’s film accused of lacking representation, as some say he and Mikey Madison could have used speeches to call for policy reform

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2025/mar/05/anora-missed-chance-to-spark-real-change-say-sex-workers

OP posts:
Arran2024 · 07/03/2025 22:56

The film presents sex work as fun and rewarding. No onevis threatened or physically harmed and they all seem to be having a good time with nice, well behaved clients. If Mikey thinks this is representative of sex work, that the film has given her insights into the industry, she is incredibly naive.

LastTrainsEast · 07/03/2025 23:00

If we normalise it enough we can tell teenage girls in school to prepare for a career in prostitution.

And we can require benefit claimants to accept an offer of a job in prostitution

That's not a world I want to live in

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/03/2025 23:01

Arran2024 · 07/03/2025 22:56

The film presents sex work as fun and rewarding. No onevis threatened or physically harmed and they all seem to be having a good time with nice, well behaved clients. If Mikey thinks this is representative of sex work, that the film has given her insights into the industry, she is incredibly naive.

I remember when The Bill used to show the prostituted women bruised and swollen in hospital. We need that kind of representation of "the sex industry" again.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/03/2025 23:08

LastTrainsEast · 07/03/2025 23:00

If we normalise it enough we can tell teenage girls in school to prepare for a career in prostitution.

And we can require benefit claimants to accept an offer of a job in prostitution

That's not a world I want to live in

Exactly.

I think all the pro-prostitution people should be asked whether they would be happy for their unemployed wife, daughter, sister, or self to be told by the Job Centre to apply to the local brothel on pain of losing benefits. Unfortunately, most of these people are champagne socialists who will never have to claim benefits and neither will the women they love, so they know that they will never be in a position of having to live with the consequences of the answer they give. Being pro-prostitution is a luxury belief.

JumpingPumpkin · 08/03/2025 10:20

LastTrainsEast · 07/03/2025 23:00

If we normalise it enough we can tell teenage girls in school to prepare for a career in prostitution.

And we can require benefit claimants to accept an offer of a job in prostitution

That's not a world I want to live in

Agreed. The fact that someone earlier compared being sexually violated repeatedly with "scrubbing toilets" as preferable "work" shows how far some have already come.

Doing a somewhat dirty job with protective clothing, rubber gloves and maintaining your bodily integrity is just a job. Selling your consent very much isn't.

EasyTouch · 14/03/2025 03:05

gannett · 06/03/2025 08:26

This is true of all jobs under capitalism. Sex workers are far from the only workers in potentially dire circumstances.

The "sex work isn't work" angle rests entirely on the assumption that sex work is uniquely degrading and exploitative. When you think about the realities of sweatshop labour, scrubbing toilets, desperate young people signing up to be cannon fodder in the military, or zero-hours precarity, I'm not sure I would agree with that at all.

Show quote history

Your point does not stand upon scrutiny.
No industry depends upon cultural/ societal.stigmatisation like the sex industry does. Without stigma, how else could sex work make money?
Most people can fuck or be made to.fuck, after all.

And even worse, if any health and safety measures that are required in legitimate employment, even of the lowest strata were implemented with any rigour , the industry would die. Why? Because the money making.hinges upon the whims of men who expect what they pay for and it is they who dictate what they get for their money, no matter how much the sex worker thinks that they are dictating terms.

That's why condoms are mostly.optional and porn, even gay porn is condom free.
You are minimising the fact that it is not the sex.that the punter pays for. It is the silence and compliance that the money is paid for.

Hence the tenuous, easy to go very left high risk nature of sex work that is unique in a way that no other is.
And why I choose to call it an occupation or prostitution offline , in the real physical world.

If you can name a job whose manifestatiom is contingent upon the whims of a customer, who is dictating the terms of a service that the worker has not had any lawful or.accredited training in and for which no ratified health and safety training.exists which takes either a certain indolence or by.force to be in, then and only then you may have a point.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:16

Jayinthetub · 06/03/2025 07:07

Sex work is not work, it's commercial sexual exploitation. I have a lot of concern for women involved in this "industry" and in my home city there is far less of the "glamour", freedom and liberation that some people suggest is involved and more of the addiction, vulnerability and exploitation of primarily women.

Then what is work? And what's the need for trade unions fighting for better work conditions? We all need to feel safe when we earn money.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:20

BeaAndBen · 06/03/2025 07:19

It’s not work, it’s prostitution. The buying of bodies should be illegal, like in the Nordic Model.

Exploitation of women, trafficking, abuse, substance dependencies… no thanks, I don’t want that ‘normalised’. I saw what happened in the Managed Zone in Leeds.

Please read more from people like Juno Mac, Sine Plambech, Teela Sanders, Maggie O'Neill, Ovidie, Mariska Majoor, Susanne Dodillet, Melissa Gira Grant, Sophia Giovannitti, May-Lis Skilbrei… Owning ones own body and using it to gain income is quite a powerful thing. Slavery another.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:23

LunaNorth · 06/03/2025 08:26

For me, it should be criminalised for the clients and decriminalised for the provider.

Put the shame and stigma where it should be - no little girl dreams of servicing misogynists for a living when she grows up.

It’s abuse, and should never be normalised.

You have such a way with words. Maybe you can read texts by other people that also can use words. People like Maggie McNeill, Andrea Werhun, Mariska Majoor, Rocky Emerson… And maybe you can learn more about people.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:26

LunaNorth · 06/03/2025 08:32

I would.

I would rather scrub any amount of toilets in a war zone on a zero hours contract than take my knickers off and bend over so a disgusting man whom I’d just met could fuck me however he liked and then write about my body on the internet.

That would be my personal rock bottom and I don’t think I’d ever recover.

Show quote history

"so a disgusting man whom I’d just met could fuck me however he liked". So that's your idea of the totality of sex work. Well, you do you. But please let other people do them. Happy scrubbing!

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:32

MinnieCauldwell · 06/03/2025 08:44

Prostitution and porn use increases the likelyhood of men raping. It harms all women and girls.

If you look at serial rapists and killers of women, they all had heavy involvement with prostituted women. Yorkshire Ripper, Jack the Ripper, Steve Wright, Fred West, the Black Cab Rapist, Wayne Cousins and many many more.

The Chinese guy on the new currently is also being done for extreme, illegal porno.

The term sex work is disingenuous, it's selling womens bodies.

"increases"? Well, that's not very consistent with some stats I've read. Like https://digitalcommons.library.uab.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4549&context=etd-collection or https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178909000445 :-)

https://digitalcommons.library.uab.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4549&context=etd-collection

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:39

LunaNorth · 06/03/2025 09:00

But to make it acceptable and characterise it as work, you’re potentially subjecting women who feel like me to this degradation. Take it to its logical conclusion. Keep legitimising prostitution and in twenty years, will women (and it will be mostly women) be having their benefits stopped if they don’t agree to take on shifts at the local legal knocking shop?

Show quote history

Letting something off stigma doesn't mean it may be something for everyone. That's the beauty of an open society, where people have more personal freedom. Compared to countries like Saudi-Arabia or Afghanistan, where both the sex industry and women's rights are less valued.

grootsin · 23/07/2025 14:39

all my “fun feminist” so called intersectional feminist friends bang the drum for sex work, but these luxury beliefs aren’t borne out via their daughters and if they were, they’d be absolutely crushed.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:41

CrocsNotDocs · 06/03/2025 08:54

Well as long as you are happy for yourself, daughter, mum or sister to me the one lying on a bed with a disgusting grunting man, the 6th of the night, panting and thrusting into her, causing vaginal and anal tearing while holding her throat, you do you.

Show quote history

You have such a way with words. Please consider going into horror novel writing. Because your way of portraying our world is so colourful.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:44

squidgie · 06/03/2025 09:16

I also agree with a previous poster about women winning Oscars for playing prostitutes and the like. I was pretty amazed at all the praise for Poor Things, which I thought was basically a depraved male fantasy of what women should be like.

That was not my take on it. I thought the idea was that Bella Baxter is free of judgement and moral prejudice. This makes her clearer about how to exploit available opportunities when she is presented with them. Discarding sexual capital as capital is not very enlightened. I think Eva Illouz has written a couple of good books on the topic.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:46

jellyfishperiwinkle · 06/03/2025 09:20

I haven't seen the film but I hear it's fairly gritty and not romanticised.

I don't agree with normalising sex work but don't agree with stigmatising those who do it either. Prison sentences should be given for men using them though.

And those prison sentences will make the sex sellers' lives happier? And more filled with income? I don't follow you.

Juytef · 23/07/2025 14:46

I'd be disgusted if my DC turned to this

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:50

TheFlyingHorse · 06/03/2025 09:28

Exactly. The only question we need to ask ourselves is whether this is a job I would want my daughter to do? If the answer is no, then why is it OK for other people's daughters?

My daughter works as a cleaner and anyone who thinks scrubbing toilets might be an equivalent job to prostitution needs their head examining.

Show quote history

Different work has different challenges. I'm not sure you need a head examination to get some proof of this.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 14:53

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 06/03/2025 09:32

This false comparison again.

= Sweatshops: it's the pay and conditions, not the work, that's exploitative. We all need clothes. Well-paid sewing machinists in safe factories are not exploited.

  • Scrubbing toilets: we all need clean safe loos. It's the pay and hours that are exploitative.
  • Military service: every nation needs to defend its borders.
  • Zero hours: it's the pay and conditions, specifically the lack of guaranteed hours and income, that's exploitative, not the work. We need retail staff and food service staff, the ones with guaranteed minimum hours are not exploited.

You have compared all of the above needed occupations to men wanting to use a woman's body as a wank sheath. You have compared the provision of clean safe loos to men ejaculating in a woman's anus. You have compared the defence of the nation to men ejaculating in a woman's mouth. You have compared retail workers assisting a disabled shopper to a man ejaculating in a woman's vagina and putting her at risk of pregnancy. And you have tried to pretend that capitalist exploitation of workers in these roles somehow makes paid rape OK.

No man needs to use someone else as a wank sheath. Comparing paid rape to work requires a firm belief that men are entitled to use someone else as a wank sheath. You have demonstrated your misogyny here.

Show quote history

Denying the value of sexual capital? Well, as we're on the level of exploitation, why not make the lives of people better, instead of worse. Take away income from people (when a lucrative activity is criminalised and banned) will seldom make people happier.

Per63 · 23/07/2025 15:00

Branleuse · 06/03/2025 09:56

is this a race to the bottom?

Sweatshops should be abolished too. Do you think sweatshop labour should be normalised and if someone wants sweatshops abolished, just hates the women and kids that do it?
kids signing up to be cannon fodder in the army - Horrible concept. The UK do this younger than any other developed country.
Scrubbing toilets ? Surely we all scrub toilets? Ive scrubbed other peoples toilets and my own and dont find it degrading or dangerous. Nobody is getting off on it being made more degrading or dangerous thankfully.

People in prostitution are in a uniquely dangerous position. more and moreso with the internet

Show quote history

How do we make the conditions for people better? Not by banning ways to make them pay the rent, I'd say. Improving people's lives means giving people more power in their lives, not less. Organisations and trade unions exist in the sex industry as well, because people want people they can trust. Which is often not the people advocating for the abolishment of an entiry industry. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sex_worker_organizations

Per63 · 23/07/2025 15:03

beAsensible1 · 06/03/2025 22:00

While I understand sex workers call for decriminalisation as this gives rise to support in terms of rights and safety.

until survival sex work is eliminated it’s just not possible. It’s exploitation

So paying the rent is not an excuse to choose a way to earn money that you don't subscribe to?

Per63 · 23/07/2025 15:05

mids2019 · 07/03/2025 05:05

I don't know if it's wise to remove stigma when stigma serves a purpose unforunatly. How do you remove the stigma for women but not for men and the 'industry' as a whole? I think the stigma is there not to punish individual women but to act as a barrier to try and shame the men involved and act as a barrier to women going down this route. It is really difficult because you don't want to demonize individual woman but you do in my opinion still need a general societal stigma (which does exist) in my opinion.

I also find it find it a bit off having a male director acting as some kind of ally (Maybe that just me)....

Well, if you're opposed to having a male director telling such a story, maybe this would be better suited to your taste? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paying_for_It_(film)

Paying for It (film) - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paying_for_It_(film)

Per63 · 23/07/2025 15:19

mantaraya · 07/03/2025 14:39

Massive eye roll at the "we're trying to destigmatise sex work" BS. Every single year we have more films about strippers and prostitutes because of course it's so important that we tell their stories and it's definitely not so that men get to ogle famous womens' tits and fannies.

I made a resolution last year that I wouldn't watch any more films containing gratuitous female nudity, especially when they're made by men, and there's barely anything left. This shit all ends up on pornhub for pathetic men to wank over and I wish Hollywood actresses could stand together and tell these pervy directors and producers to F off.

Well, you do you. If you dislike having a male director making your film of choice, maybe you could choose films from a female or non-binary one? Some names to choose from: Sook-Yin Lee, Sophie Hyde, Francesca Manieri, Chantal Akerman, Elene Naveriani.

Juytef · 23/07/2025 15:31

How would everyone feel if their DD's did OF?

BeaAndBen · 23/07/2025 16:01

Do you feel better for those repetitive posts telling each of us we're wrong on a 4 month old thread, @Per63 ?

Prostitution is not ok. Prostituted women deserve support to escape it. Those who use prostituted women deserve to be criminalised, penalised and shamed. And also educated about consent, that women are human beings and not support beings for randy men, and consent cannout be purchased.