Autistic or shy?

[Rarebitinlondon]

This isn’t meant to offend or be cheeky, but what are some differences between being shy/inteoverted and being autistic?

DS is 6, has always been a bit bashful. At a restaurant for example, you have to ask his order twice, or if we’re queuing for ice cream and someone says, oh, aren’t you a lucky boy? He looks down and sort of nods whilst my other DS (3) will beam and say “yes!”

He also is happy to play on his own. He has many interests (the usually little boy things, Lego, drawing, building things, reading, etc) and can entertain himself for a long time but is also keen on playing with his little brother or other children (though he hasn’t got a big group of friend there are a couple he plays with regularly.) DS3 tends to be more active in seeking attention. School have also said that DS has a hard time joining in groups in the schoolyard.

When does shyness become more than just that and require extra intervention?

Your children just have different personalities.

And, I know that your intention might not have been to offend, but equating shyness with autism really is offensive

Yes I’m sorry I didn’t mean that at all. His school have implied that DS6 might need evaluations for autism based on his social interactions (like appearing nervous to join a large group) but what I see is a child who has always been more shy but not any markers of autism. (But I don’t know , now that I see how my younger acts, is DS6 exhibiting these behaviours more than just shyness?)

We have moved abroad so I reckon that plays a role too. But when I read the NHS information about autism, it seems like some of the criteria for social difficulties could also be explained by shyness or introversion.

He just sounds shy to me. My son was like- probably worse actually. He’s now 20.
he got his shyness from me as I’m very shy.

my DH and DD on the other hand are loud and confident.

my 3rd child is a mix of the two.

Do you have any other concerns about him not meeting developmental milestones, or having sensory issues? I wouldn't rush to think autism just based on what you've described.

I think it can be hard to tell but asd is also about rigidity so not flexing to do what the group wants to so can end up alone.
Sensory issues.
Stimming.

Possibly difficulty with team work and sports.
Sticking to routines.

Eg my kid at scouts they were making pancakes and they wanted one, but wouldntmake one as their paper plate said something on it they didnt like. They didnt even need a plate really.
So focusing on small unimportant details.
Every report from y3 has mentioned issues with teamwork. Prefer to work alone.
Problems understanding hierarchy so mine doesnt accept that you need to listen to adults or teachers or HT.
Can have late speech. But could also just go on about their topic of interest and not care about boring others

I would say the asdkids in class had issues in reception for shows etc they would be to the side not joining in perhaps with ta. Similar with class photos...
Dd did join in but never wanted an actual role so seemed more shy than trying to stay out of the group.
How is he with parties etc? Some asd kids will sit on parents lap or want to go home. Or not get invited.
Is he invited to friends houses?

It’s really hard, I was really shy, pretty much like your ds, I was referred to the hospital dietician at 4 years old for eating difficulties (now recognised as an issue but not then), I struggled socially, it was put down to moving countries and schools. I was never diagnosed as a child but if things that are now available were then they could have helped me. I was diagnosed in my forties. I met my developmental milestones, I ran cross country, my academic record is really good, not straight A’s, but better than average. I was ‘just’ very shy and a picky eater as autism wasn’t widely identified in the 80’s 90’s. I think maybe keep it on a back burner and see how the next few years go?

I also love lego(still), love my sensory stuff, get overloaded after a work day, but manage with the right support.

My son and I are both autistic

Ds -
Didn't speak n sentences until he was 7
Dint toilet train until 6
His social /emotional age is around 3/4. (He's 10.)
Shakes his head and spins in circles
Needs very specific routines
Meltdowns regularly
Struggles with noise/smells
Has sensory issues with fabrics
Doesn't see risk
Believes what you tell him
Doesn’t really feel pain (at least he doesn't tell you he's in pain or show signs)
Likes to make lists
Has obsessions

I -
Didn't speak until I was 8
Only ate 3 foods until my teens/developed arfid
Feel sick with any sort of motion/spinning/head shaking
Sensitive to fabrics
Struggle in social situations
Need rountine
Feel pain intensely
Very day dreamy/in my own world
Have obsessions
Like to make lists

You may not be aware, but children are all different. Try to enjoy the child you have rather than comparing them to their older sibling.

Also 'shy' is very outdated.

My boys started school lacking social confidence and the school put in measures to help them and it worked well because they became very sociable and popular. This was 10+ years ago but their schools had nurture groups and specific help. One of the initiatives helped my son be able to deal with group work situations at school and helped him go from the one waiting until the end of the task to someone who could contribute and get the dominant person of the group to listen.

If school have suggested possible autism then you should get an assessment.

My teen DS was diagnosed with Autism last year.

When he was 5, we moved and rented a house next to a lovely playground in a touristy area so there were lots of new families coming and going throughout the summer.

DS was incredibly confident chatting away to all the children he met on the equipment and he was similarly chatty in school.

However, he was bullied in the first year of secondary school and became very withdrawn. He'll avoid eye contact and barely speak to you unless it's to talk about something he's really interested in.

So I think in DS's case, it's not the Autism per se, but the bullying that's caused a change in personality that I hope is only temporary for the teen years. 😢

Social communication difficulties are only one aspect of autism, there also needs to be restrictive and repetitive interests/patterns of behaviour, which you don’t mention.

It’s also worth noting that not all autistic people are shy or introverted.

He might just be an introvert.

I was painfully shy at school and all my life, but hit all my milestones with ease throughout primary school. At 42 just diagnosed with adhd 😬. Think girls present much more differently than boys at this age. Might be worth reviewing in few years.

I don't know why people are so offended by the word shy or by someone wondering if their child is shy or autistic. I'm shy, I have a child with ASD, am I autistic? Not sure. DS was shy as a child and is still shy now as a young adult. I'm not offended by the word shy because it's the word that describes what I am.

It's only because it's a world built for extroverts that shy is seen by some as a negative or a problem.

It's really hard to say for your DS OP, really we'd need to know more - and it can be quite subtle things. DS wasn't diagnosed until almost secondary school age and before that point not a single person had ever picked up on it or suggested it to be a possibility. But once it was suggested and I read up on it that's when it all started to make sense - it's 101 little things. Like he would explain jokes, he'd put his hands over his ears in certain noisy places, he loved telephones when he was little, getting his hair cut/dentist etc was impossible before school age, he was a nightmare to wean and potty train, terrible sleeper, quite literal, had to ask if what was on tv was real or not, struggled with some transitions, quite anxious - but these things could be completely different from another child with ASD.

I would just make a note of what you have noticed and see how he goes. It is likely that as he get older it will get more noticeable if he does have ASD. The gap in emotional maturity starts to really widen around starting secondary age. Look out for any sensory or 'quirky' behaviour too. It's worth reading up as much as you can, I'd look particularly at Aspergers syndrome because if he's got to 6 with no one picking anything up then he probably would have got that diagnosis when it was a thing and it might be more relevant. DS never did wheel spinning or flapping or lined up toys or the more obvious classically autistic things.

Introversion and shyness are not the same thing.

If school are encouraging an assess I would go for it. There is shyness and then there is struggling with social skills. It's worth remembering that Autism has been chronically undiagnosed and so what lots of people historically might class as shy actually may turn out to be autism. Also it's usually genetic so as parents we may look and feel like our child is similar to us and therefore fine but we may not know we're autistic too.

"Autism spectrum disorder DSM-5 diagnostic criteria: Full text
A. Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive, see text):

1. Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
2. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
3. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers.

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted repetitive patterns of behavior. B. Restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior, interests, or activities, as manifested by at least two of the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):

1. Stereotyped or repetitive motor movements, use of objects, or speech (e.g., simple motor stereotypies, lining up toys or flipping objects, echolalia, idiosyncratic phrases).
2. Insistence on sameness, inflexible adherence to routines, or ritualized patterns or verbal nonverbal behavior (e.g., extreme distress at small changes, difficulties with transitions, rigid thinking patterns, greeting rituals, need to take same route or eat food every day).
3. Highly restricted, fixated interests that are abnormal in intensity or focus (e.g, strong attachment to or preoccupation with unusual objects, excessively circumscribed or perseverative interest).
4. Hyper- or hyporeactivity to sensory input or unusual interests in sensory aspects of the environment (e.g., apparent indifference to pain/temperature, adverse response to specific sounds or textures, excessive smelling or touching of objects, visual fascination with lights or movement).

Specify current severity: Severity is based on social communication impairments and restricted, repetitive patterns of behavior. C. Symptoms must be present in the early developmental period (but may not become fully manifest until social demands exceed limited capacities or may be masked by learned strategies in later life). D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning. E. These disturbances are not better explained by intellectual disability (intellectual developmental disorder) or global developmental delay. Intellectual disability and autism spectrum disorder frequently co-occur; to make comorbid diagnoses of autism spectrum disorder and intellectual disability, social communication should be below that expected for general developmental level."

This is the diagnostic criteria for ASD. To get a diagnosis, the criteria a), b), c), d) and e) must all be met.