Are you a primary teacher in a leafy mc school?

[jimjamjoo]

I have spent my 11 year career teaching in a working class, high pp, poverty stricken school. I have had enough. I just cannot deal with the kids anymore. I am so sick of the constant back chat, arguing and general nastiness. The kids are so far behind and cannot even do the basics. I feel like I'm barely teaching and just putting out fires. All. Day. Long.

Before I leave teaching forever, I wondered whether it would be worth looking for a job in a nice leafy, middle class school.

Please tell me your experiences of these types of school. Am I going to hate it all the same?! What challenges do you have? Do you like your job?

Thank you.

I left 20 years ago and hear lots has
changed so take the following with a pinch of salt.
Early years and until about year 3 it’s the school rather than children’s families that has the biggest effect.
Could you leave and do a terms supply to get an idea of different schools’ cultures?

My kids’ private school really didn’t have these issues. At primary or secondary. I am friends with a few of the teachers who say they like their jobs. Would you consider private or would you have ethical objections?

I did exactly this move for similar reasons to what you mention! The behaviour and motivation to learn from the children is much better and it feels calmer on the whole but I have found parental expectations and complaints more difflcult. This impacts workload. Swings and roundabouts!

I work in a small village school in a wealthy area and we have the same issues I'm afraid.

Moved from a school similar to yours to a prep school in a leafy area. Behaviour is better, classes smaller, TAs supporting in class. There are of course problems at all schools and advantages to working in both state and private but maybe worth considering if you're looking for a change?

DC were at a state primary, MC area but there were still a fair amount of kids who weren't taught to value education or manners. Unless you work in a private school I don't think you can really totally avoid it, but some areas will be worse than others. Usually in grammar areas the primary schools that get good grammar results are in areas that value education as parents make sure to get their kids in if they care about education.

Why not look at an independent prep school? No school is without issues but might be worth a try?

I knew someone who worked in an inner city school where if you didn't fear the kids you feared the parents and was going to leave teaching but as a final step moved location to another city school but not so deprived . It changed her life . It's worth a try OP.

I'd go for it. It won't be perfect but it's worth a go.
My DC are in a leafy mc primary school. Behaviour is generally ok in one form; excellent in the other. Kids are achieving a lot academically speaking too.

Yes I moved out of London after about eight years in schools there and now teach in a far more affluent area. There is still behaviour, challenges with resources and some pretty difficult parents BUT generally you can teach perfectly fine without constant behaviour management. I never dread doing a particular activity as or not having enough adults as I know basically the children will behave and parents back me up. I would definitely try it as after 11 years teaching you should have lots of experience that shouldn't be wasted..

Hi OP.
Reading with interest. I've always worked in schools like yours and it's getting to me lately too. I moved from class teaching to send support which is less workload but I spend so much of my day dealing with behaviour and it's draining. Like you, the kids are just so far behind and I find myself awake sometimes worrying about my Y5s that can't read! I've always worked in schools in deprived areas because it's never boring and I feel like I'm making a real difference but I think everything feels so much worse now and, like you, I feel like I'm just putting out fires and getting nowhere.

Having said this, my own kids are in a leafy mc school and I know there's some pretty awful behaviour there too. The ability level is a lot higher though and I think that must make a difference.

I don't speak for all BUT I am an atheist And am much happier since working for a church school. We are in a deprived London Borough but in a wealthy ish area. As it's a church school and numbers are low we get a very good mix of children as the catchment is quite wide.

Our diocese places emphasis on wellbeing, spiritual (not just Christian) development and i do feel that parents also really care about their children's wellbeing and just whether they are an overall good person (which to me translates to families working with you, even if there are needs).

I’m secondary not primary but have worked in schools in very middle class areas. Whilst the behaviour is generally probably better and you may not feel the same sense of fire fighting, it doesn’t mean there won’t be bad behaviour or kids who fall behind. Sometimes that can then lead to its own challenges as people expect everything to be rosy given the context of the school so you may not feel you get as much support professionally or from friends/colleagues as everyone will just tell you it’s fine/not as bad as in challenging areas. Equally, just be very aware that you may well swap one set of issues for different ones anyway. Whilst I wasn’t dealing with especially poor behaviour, parents were far more demanding, students had very high expectations, tutors were often involved and that sometimes led to conflict between what teachers said vs what tutors said, mental health issues were sky high, workload was high due to the pressure to maintain high results/Ofsted ratings. The main thing I would say is to go back to why you started teaching in the first place, what you love about the job and what ‘bad bits’ you’re prepared to tolerate, then see where/what type of school might fit with that or if you think you’d rather a change completely.

I was a teacher in that kind of school. I didn't find the workload of actual teaching and admin any better. The pupils' behaviour was generally better, but the parents were a pain in the arse. They understandably expected far more from you than the other schools, but a lot of it was hugely unreasonable.

I had the best experience teaching in schools where they were deprived but majority EAL. The children were generally well behaved compared to economically comparable white British children. And the parents were equally engaged as the MC white British parents but respected you a lot more and were more willing to believe their kids needed to play their part to do well.

I have over 20 years of experience teaching in all kinds of schools and would completely agree with all of this.

Thanks for all the feedback. Lots to think about! I am not against going to a private school although I used to be. Feel like I've had enough now!

Whilst I agree, a job at a private school in the current climate is unlikely. Everywhere is making redundancies due to VAT/business rates/NI/NMW.

My friend works in a small, rural, fairly affluent school. She spends most of her time managing the high number of SEN (eg 12 in a class of 30) because the parents think a small school will be able to support their children better.

I teach in a primary in a deprived area and absolutely love it. Our kids are gorgeous and it’s always commented on by supply and visitors how good their behaviour is. Yes we have a high SEND % and there are problems at times with behaviour and parents, but by and large the kids are a joy. My class are a varied bunch but they’re hardworking and polite.

I’ve not taught in a leafy school for a long time but my youngest goes to one and the difference to me (from what my child tells me) is that the teacher doesn’t need to provide constant small-group support in the same way I’ve found I do in lower key stage 2. He said she helps them all, which is an alien concept to me with such a high level of needs from some.

Having had experience of both ends of the spectrum, I think MC and leafy would potentially be better, but it isn't guaranteed.

Before applying anywhere, I'd definitely do some research to determine whether the school's demographic is actually invested in education, rather than simply being materially affluent. Quite a few of the schools near me are leafy and middle class on paper - big houses, plenty of exotic holidays - but the behaviour is just as bad as in deprived areas, as the parents aren't especially concerned about academics and the material wealth means the kids are super competitive about designer labels, all have the latest tech and so on - lots of jockeying for position.

The best primaries I've worked in behaviour-wise have either been church schools, or have had an intake that was keen to access grammar schools/selective indies and parents who consequently encouraged their kids to knuckle down.

I teach in a primary school with a mixed demographic. I really do enjoy my job.
The children certainly have additional needs, which seem to increase each year, but the team is lovely. So I suggest working with a supportive SLT and team around you is a big component. But I wouldn't want to work amidst back chat and language etc.

It’s nice to read about some happy teachers! I mean that genuinely.

I love my job. I count myself lucky and obviously there are tough times, and it can be stressful (what job above a certain level isn’t?!) but I genuinely enjoy going in each day. There will always be challenges when working with humans as we’re not robots you can programme, but our school genuinely shows me that public education is superb quality in certain schools.

OP, you need to look for a few things IMO:

School ethos (we’re church and honestly, although I’m agnostic, I love teaching RE as it provides such a great moral compass)

Supportive SLT (who are they and how do they encourage good behaviour / parent relationships?)

Staff movement (do lots of jobs come up? If they do and it isn’t an enormous school, that’s often a sign of a toxic workplace; lots of long term staff is often a sign of the opposite)

Behaviour of children moving around school and at break / lunch times (we’re VERY strict on this in our school)

Ofsted report (this gives a few clues about leadership although obviously not the full picture)

What is staff progression like? Our head has always encouraged us to do extra qualifications etc, and all staff are given leadership time no matter what their role. This reduces workload and makes us all feel valued)