WFH causing school refusal to increase.

[rivalsbinge]

I read a thought provoking post on LinkedIn a comment about school refusals being so much higher since WFH became more "normal"

In essence the thought was a lack of everyone up, dressed out the door, it's now kids up breakfast dressed smart, out the door with parents in PJs or leisure wear going back home to work and the kids knowing that parents are at home makes them more likely to want to also stay home.

Obviously the parents do work but the kids (age dependent) are not seeing this and are thinking work/ school is now optional.

I did think this poster may have a valid point but interested in what others think, I'm also not talking about SEN and other considerations.

It's not only Anglophone countries. School avoidance is on the rise in many places. Countries that stand out are the United States, Japan, Spain and England. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10896000/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%2C%20Japan%2C%20Spain,that%20publish%20on%20school%20refusal.

Interesting that England is specified and not Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland.

They increase gradually. So you start with 4 and they (very slowly go up) . You do end up with 7/8 hour days, but that's well into high school( the last year mostly), which starts at 14. That's how it was where I grew up. They don't start school until 7 either. Somehow they still manage to learn to read and write (in more languages than one), despite no screening phonics tests at 6.

Hmmm I read similar comments by Martyn 'dead cat' Oliver of Ofsted.

Did SAHMs from 20+ years ago waving off children in their slippers and pyjamas cause a lot of school refusers?

Yes! Totally! I speak 4 languages, managed UK Uni and shock, didn't start till 7 or was particularly good on attendance myself 😂

Another difference is that there are lots more different career path schools. So some kids end up in grammar school equivalent, some go to vocational schools and some in school that teach profession, like IT, accounting, specialist things like music school, art school etc.
All of those can end at Uni but it's great if you child wants to do x and can start it at 14 (age secondary starts).
Also major difference is that kids take A level equivalent and are graded agaist the requirements of the course. So if everyone is good enough the course, everyone passes.
In UK, 30% of kids are 'losers', never mind how good they are bc they are rated against their peers.
Lot of people don't know that.

This is really the one massive difference.

You get the vocational /technical high schools that are a straight path to a trade OR career ( pedagogy, RE, accounting, food tech, electrical, automotive , music , chemistry etc.) -which normally require lower grades to get in -, and the academic high schools.

In the academic high schools there's further streaming and you have a humanities (languages, history , geography,literature etc) or sciences (intensive maths, maths & computing, biology , physics etc) profiles. Everyone learns the same things , you just do more of whatever your profile is.

There can be movement as well , via tests .

Each bacc test is graded (and the subjects depend on your profile , so maths is actually optional for a humanities profile for example) and you get an average score.

Forgot to add you need at least 5 to pass in everything, and an average of 6 in the written tests. You can also retake any failed subjects.

Yes! Also totally normal for kids start school a year later, due to various reasons, such as child not quite ready / eye issues etc.
Hubby is Police Officer so sees teens quite regularly. He definitely noticed how different teens are abroad. I guess bc they aren't micro managed, they don't rebel?
The kids are allowed to be lots more independent also, such walking to school at 7, getting their stuff ready etc.

Exactly. This is utter rubbish to try to shift blame and not look at the real issues....yet again.

The EU way 100% sounds like a great education, off topic in my own thread but do the teachers in the EU leave at the same rate as the UK teachers are?

Just sounds like more bullshit anti-wfh prejudice

I have a few teacher friends abroad.
My best friend works 4 hrs, then does bit of prep and marking once a week. Then done. No EHCP paperwork either. Schools quite often have Ed Psych and specialist teacher already, so use those.
I feel sorry for UK teachers with their long hours.

They were quick to close schools during covid. School kids weren’t a priority, neither was their education, mental wellbeing or social life.

Months of lockdowns to varying degrees, so it’s a bit rich now for the the education boards to be complaining when other people assume schools clearly not that important - when they can just close schools down for something that didn’t impact 99% of kids.

Spain (mainstream)

Curriculum less pressured but can be more ‘textbook’ style teaching although It is more flexible than here due to the fact that each autonomous region has control over its schools ie it is uniquely decentralized.
Formal education doesn’t start until age 6 though pre-school is available (but not compulsory from age 3).
Primary school is age 6-12.
Secondary is age 12-16. Finishes at age 16 with the option to go onto 18 to do the Baccalaureate.
Day starts at 9am and finishes at 2 or 2:30
No uniform (only in private schools)
Students call teachers by their first names.
10 week summer holidays plus several other weeks throughout the year.
More continuous assessments and less high stakes end of secondary exams. Teacher assessment is high.
parents can be fined for attendance issues but generally only if it fallls below 80% and there are no strict rules like here. Schools have discretion and generally allow some absences for justifiable reasons such as family occasions or travel as long as it’s not abused.
Students are not expected to go in when ill.
Schools are inspected by local authorities but they are nowhere near as high-stakes as here

Honestly what planet is that dude on. Maybe he should talk to social workers, family lawyers, psychologists and - out of the box I know - actual teachers, they'd be able to give some decent insights into low attendance. I doubt WFH - by itself - is in any way a significant factor.

If anything empty houses all day gives a pretty great space for teens (and younger) to bunk off school to drink, do drugs & have sex. It's what my sister and her mates did all through high school in the late 90s. Maybe he's pissed off on behalf of his teen self and taking it out on those peaky WFH cockblockers, I mean - parents. Ahem.

Both me and my husband work from home part of the week, and our kids have 100% school attendance for as far back as I can remember, with the exception of one kid throwing up at school and ordered out for 48 hours about a year ago. I honestly don't see why it would make a difference, except for those occasional just a little bit sick days when you have to decide to send them in or not. There does seem to be a lot of anti home working stories in the media lately though, it does feel like an agenda, and is worrying me we'll lose our amazing perks.

My post wasn't about some dude? It was an observation from a guy on LinkedIn around this topic.

The Ofsted guy talking drivel about WFH being the cause of low attendance rates? That's the "dude" here - and it really was drivel. In some families it may be a factor but running alongside multiple other factors. Sending everyone back to the office isn't quite the fix he reckons - like I said, when I was younger the kids whose parents were both out of the house were often the ones hosting parties & getting jiggy during school hours.

Maybe the linked in guy had better points than the Ofsted dude. I suspect though there's a lot of vested interests in running down WFH arrangements and overseeing a return to the 'natural order'. It all seems like anecdata to me though, and school is not what it used to be. My experience in the 90s is the troubled kids used to bunk school to do drugs, according to DS who goes to my old high school they now come to school and openly do drugs there and are off their faces in class. Complete with attendant aggressive behaviour which teachers are not able to control (and nor should they have to). DS had near perfect attendance last year but he barely learned anything. It's a mess. But rather than address that as a potential reason why so many kids don't want to go to school or see value in it, we'll point the finger at WFH. It's much easier and in my opinion a very lazy conclusion to make.

I guess there might be some truth in it. For kids who hate school, knowing mum is home and not going to work would have some bearing for some kids. Also when kids are a bit under the weather, parents had no choice but to send them to school if they had to be in the office, but now can allow them to be home for a few days. Most employers are ok with that.

I can totally relate to this

Can you link to it? The topic has been in the news because the Chief Inspector of Osted did an interview over the weekend claiming, with no evidence, that remote working is detrimental to attendance.

https://archive.ph/zwNPv

Your LinkedIn bloke may have been commenting on this interview and the varying articles, or it might be a conclusion he's come to himself. Lots of people will swallow any idiocy when it comes to criticism of remote working.

Just another thing to bash women / mums with isn't it?

Don't work - sponger / not instilling work eithic in your kids

Work ft - why have kids and someone else raise them? Absentee parent

Work PT - your job is just pin money / unimportant so shouldn't be prioritised

WFH - taking the piss out of your employer doing the school run, let your kids stay off more

It's a fucking joke.

Why mum and not dad?

The topic has been in the news because the Chief Inspector of Osted did an interview over the weekend claiming, with no evidence, that remote working is detrimental to attendance.

He is perhaps unaware of the amount of home working that Ofsted inspectors do when they are not actually in schools!! Perhaps they should all 'get back to the office' as well...