Have you moved your primary ages child from private to state?

[Lucyshimmer]

DD is currently in Y2 in a all girl private school. We moved her from state half way through Reception due to the disruption and bad behaviour in her class.

She loves her new school however it's quite clear that behaviour isn't what we expected. She was bullied last year (school sorted it and bully is out of school) but I can see she is struggling this year too. These girls are very confident and loud and some are quite hyper and the school isn't very good at disciplining them so the class is often loud. DD might have some mild ASD.

So this isn't working for us, except for the academics, which I expect will start suffering if the disruption will carry on. Current teacher occasional punishes the whole class for bad behaviour even though DD is super well behaved and does the right thing. The teacher does occasionally takes her aside to explain to her why she had to do it and spends some time with DD to reassure her.

However, I can see as she gets older, she's struggling socially and I can't see her survive this school until Y6. The low numbers in the class aren't really helping when most girls are misbehaving.

Seriously considering looking into a state school with good SEN (we weren't aware she had any SEN until after she turned 5). In our experience the state school was better at disciplining bad behaviour. Plus not having to worry about school fees would be a huge bonus.

Has anyone made this move successfully?

Sorry OP but from what you have outlined there, my first thought was that it might be beneficial for you to take a bit of a step back. Question if she’ll ever find her feet if you keep moving her.

Maybe give it another year and reassess.

She tells me every night that she feels like no one likes her, they talk to her in a different way, she has no friends. I obviously don't fully understand what is going on but I'll have a meeting with her teacher soon.

One day at pick up the teacher told me she finds it hard to regulate her emotions when it's too much going on (the disruption I mentioned above). She cried one day when the whole class was punished as she found it unfair.

Every day is a struggle. She does enjoy going to.school and loves learning, doing well academically, but the deterioration in her social skills is starting to impact her learning. We are quite shocked to see her in this state as she was a very confident and social child prior to starting school. She's very naive and young in her thinking and communication despite being one of the oldest and tallest in the class.

I would have a formal meeting with the school and ask their advice their advice, voice your concerns.
We are rarely objective about our children, talk to the school.
One step at a time - they are the experts see what they say.
But much empathy - it's so hard to know what to do for the best when our kids struggle.
All the best to you all as a family

go private and look into the asd potential fully.
no matter where you go state or private having the full educational psych assessment will be beneficial for your dd.
then based on the report and the input from the psychiatrist consider the school options.

Thank you all for your input.

I asked her this morning if she would consider, maybe in the future, not now, to go back to a state school. She says she still loves everything about this school apart from the girls behaviour, which is obviously a big part of the school life.

What is quite surprising is that, even when they do their work (Maths, English), the classroom isn't quiet, the girls are allowed to talk to each other, move seats, argue etc. which DD finds very hard. She also sits next to a girl who is behind academically and constantly pokes DD for help, which means DD doesn't always finish her work. If DD declines help, she 'growls' at her or is being silly. It's hard, I couldn't function in such a class myself either. I don't understand what the teacher is doing when the class is out of control. She is a wonderful teacher in every way and DD loves her but don't think she got a grip of the class. DD says that sometimes the two Y2 teachers 'moan' to each other, outside the classroom, about the girls behaviours.

I'm hoping Y3 will bring a bit more formality but I am not sure.

If she does get a diagnosis, what changes would a school implement?

Last year SENCO asked me for a meeting to tell me that they suspect she has ASD. Gave me a few examples and told me she developed anxiety about going to the playground. Told me begrudgingly that they will support her as they are an 'inclussive' school, although they don't have any ASD girls in the school (out of 300 girls). They do take mild to moderate ADHD. It turned out she was severely bullied and no one was aware. During that time DD was given support but that stopped once the bully left.

When she started Y2 she did amazing. Her teacher is wonderful and nurturing and DD excelled academically and seemed to play with different girls. But it all changed again at the end of the autumn term. This term is getting worse by the day.

Another way of looking at it, just for the sake of argument, is that our kids have to master the challenges of the outside world and school is a gradual introduction.
My sister used to say that to me whenever my kids were struggling in school.
What I've found is that at times my kids have struggled and I have intervened when I thought it appropriate.
I've learned though that sometimes if it's not abusive, they need to find their own way through.
I'm not saying that's the case here - I'm just raising it as an attitudinal thing.
No schools is perfect, neither is home schooling. If your child mostly likes the place then work on the classroom stuff and be explicit about what your child is finding hard and work closely with the staff about practical solutions.
Get into the detail and I always always show teachers lots of respect. Kids' view of their school can be accurate but I have learned to approach schools with some humility as a parent who only sees a percentage of what's going on.

I have had the best outcomes by approaching schools and teachers with respect.
Looking back, they were often far more savvy about my children then I was!

Have you had a meeting with the school and discussed all your concerns? I agree with PP that it’s difficult to be completely objective and children tend to remember certain things, not the whole picture. With regards to punishing the whole class - have you looked at school policies?

I would be requesting a meeting with both head and class teacher. Have all your concerns listed and discuss how to move forward. With private schools, you pay one hell of a lot and the expectation is they are available to guide you and your child to a resolution. I would only consider removing if relationship with school staff has broken down (and would still be hesitant because as PP has pointed out, you’ve already moved her once).

Thank you for your advice. I totally agree that unless is abuse, I would not interfere and she needs to find a way to sort things out. She always asks me what I did when I was her age, the only problem is I was very assertive and not desperate for friends so I was quite confident in myself and would not put up with unkind behaviour. DD is desperate to fit in, which makes things a lot harder. She feels like she's not good enough or she's the odd one out.

I always approach the school with humility, 100%. I understand they are the professionals and have seen thousands of girls in their career so I do trust they are most likely right.

I think this is really good advice and something I have learnt as a parent too. I think it's really important that we look to equip our children with the resilience and skills they need to navigate adult life and the best way to do this is for them to experience challenging situations with appropriate levels of support in places.

Your child may prefer a perfectly quiet classroom with quiet and timid children but realistically they are unlikely to find this anywhere and also it probably wouldn't even be the best thing for her in the longer term even if you could find it. No class or school is perfect and a private school with all girls IMO is probably the closest you are going to get to a happy medium where your DD is pushed slightly out of her comfort zone but noise levels can only get so high and the teacher can devote extra time to reassuring her versus a class where there are 30 kids.

Like I say, I totally understand the desire to remove difficulties for our children and make them as happy as possible but I have learned the hard way that often the issue is with the child and not the environment they are in. The chances are that you will move her and your DD will suffer more disruption and find more problems at a new school.

Thank you for your advice. One day at pick up I told her teacher we would like a meeting sometime soon as DD has been quite upset lately. She did say briefly DD has struggled a bit emotionally lately but that she's doing so amazing with everything and she should be proud of herself.

I'll ask for a meeting after half term, definitely.

Good luck OP, it was for me the first great psychological trauma of parenting - watching my 'babies' go into what was really hard and going against this overwhelming instinct to protect them and shield them from suffering.

My ds had a really tough training year quite far away last year and I spent hours on the phone with him trying to boost his confidence in a really nasty work setting that he needed to survive to be able to get his qualification. It was so painful; but now he has come through! And he has a whole armoury of experience to help him fight the next battle life throws at him.
It's also about endurance.
We need to exemplify positivity as well - something I am very bad at 🤦‍♀️- still learning!

Ask for a meeting in writing or call reception and ask to set one up (whichever is the usual process at your school). If you would prefer to escalate from now, ask for head to be present or start with class teacher. School should also have pastoral and SEN leads which you can involve.

From your posts, you come across as calm and respectful so go in with the same approach and a list of all the concerns you have. Follow up with all information in writing and see what happens.

It sounds like they are responsive and you are respectful so I would be optimistic for a resolution

Thank you so much for sharing your own experience ❤️.

I am trying sometimes to detach myself from it all but it's just impacting us all so much as a family. Hopefully one day I'll master the art of detachment but at the moment is relentless worry.

I did tell her this morning going into school to just be proud of who she is and carry on being the best she can be. And choose happiness. Easier said than done! I do feel like she's a bit too impacted by the other girls behaviour, I don't remember being quite so sensitive as a child so really can't draw from my own experience.

All the best, you, she and the school will find a way through this. There's nothing like the power of a parents' love and confidence in their child.
Someone said to me once that children see the fear and doubt in our eyes and then take that in deeply.
It took me years to tackle and I still fail frequently. But i sometimes think of those tennis coaches in the bleachers watching an Andy Murray type player on a key point and they sometimes look up and the coach believes in them so much that it seems to counter the player's doubt in themselves. But if clumsy comparison but you know what I mean.
I feel like I want to be an optimistic person who looks forward with hope to the future and tackles difficulties and obstacles with philosophical good cheer so the child has that role model.
Lately I've been doing a LOT of complaining as I have had some personal struggles lately and I really need to stop for their sake! 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

I know exactly what you mean 😊.

It's really hard especially when you got your own struggles. I have not sleep very well lately, DH has been struggling with his health too so I find it very hard to be cheerful.

I promised myself to make a conscious effort to be happy and cheerful in the mornings before school so she's at least in a positive mood going in.

I know it's really hard but I would be so keen to move her a second time unless you have no choice.

Also the possible ASD makes things tricky, my son has autism and he can often misinterpret situations and peoples intentions as being unkind where in fact often they aren't.

I'd hang fire until you have spoken to the teacher. Perhaps they can offer some help with emotional regulation and friendships then you can see where you are.

Have you tried inviting some of the girls round for play dates and supervising closely to see if you can see any issues?

If she is ASD then this is the age when social differences can start to become much more noticeable. Many ASD girls do fine in school until about ks2 and then struggles mount. my own ASD dd is generally quite confident, but at 8yo I notice that social interactions are much harder as the gap between her and peers widens and there is more anxiety around those differences.
i don’t think you are going to find a magic solution in a school - if she is neurodivergent there will be challenges in any mainstream school that will require support. It isn’t about how the other children are managed (beyond a certain baseline behaviour management) so much as how she is supported through a difficult period of her development.

You might be looking back on state school with rose tinted glasses - behaviour in y2 is always going to be worse than reception, as it is developmentally appropriate for children at that age to start pushing back. Yes, it should be managed, but I think you will find that nt children this age are universally more boisterous and prone to testing boundaries, they are also developing more complex social communication that introduces lots of friendship and peer issues.

personally I would be really really careful about moving back to state, as quiet academically able ASD girls don’t get a lot of support even in send friendly schools. There might be other private schools that are truly more inclusive, or you might want to investigate other interventions that might help your dd develop coping strategies. My dd has really benefited from 1:1 SaLT support (looking at emotional regulation and social communication) as well as ELSA support (working through strategies for aspects in school that she found difficult).

Yes, we had a few girls for playdates a few times. One of them she is not friends with anymore, she really doesn't like her as she says she's been very mean and bossy and pulls her about, which to some extent I understand as I suspected that since she's been over.

Then another one came over a couple of weeks ago and she's adorable. Super chatty, bubbly and kind. However back at school, the 'bossy' one took over and plays with this new friend not allowing DD to play with them, apparently. I told DD to stay out of it and find other friends.

I have often discouraged DD from having one best friend in the class as it always creates some sort of issues, but she doesn't seem to be doing well in group play. As in, she'd play in a group but then she kind of expects that these girls will be her best friends, whereas in reality they move on once the game is over, which is very normal behaviour. Also aften in a group play the girls argue and shout, sometimes it gets out of control (one day a girl bit her best friend..or spit at each other) and DD finds that really hard to deal with.