Why would this man be refused water in hospital? I’m confused.

[EvangelicalAboutButteredToast]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14337171/michael-baggott-flog-star-nhs-hell-expert-fans-worried-stroke-death.html

Now granted I can currently doing some medical training as part of my job but I’m reading this story thinking why would he be refused water by senior staff? He was in hospital having had a suspected stroke and was tweeting from his hospital bed that they were refusing him water. He has subsequently died. Do you think he was due an operation maybe so nil by mouth?

Obviously I don’t know this man or his medical history, but it states in the article that he had had a recent heart attack. A lot of cardiac patients retain fluid in their tissues which builds up and increases their blood pressure and decreases their ability to breathe properly. To treat this, patients are given diuretic medication and are put on a fluid restriction - and this combination usually makes them very thirsty. I think that this is the most likely scenario, rather than being willfully dehydrated to death by medical staff. I am writing this as both a cardiac patient (who is currently struggling with fluid overload) and a nursing student.

People who are frightened and vulnerable (and are possibly not the most health-educated) tend to lash out at medical professionals who are trying to help them. It’s very sad that he died, but I don’t think that he was being willfully neglected in hospital in this case.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write that. It makes complete sense and the poor gentleman sounds like he was very ill and very sadly died due to his ill health.

Bloody Daily Mail - anything for a good headline.

There is lots of reasons why patients are not given fluids.eg Maybe his swallow was affected ,people don't understand post for example a stroke it can affect people swallow. So if they drink any fluids ,they are at high risk of aspirations (fluids goes into lungs instead of stomach) and they develop pnenomia and sepsis.

He may also be on a fluid restriction if he had heart or kidney problems. You have to remember if a patient is getting intravenous fluids or antibiotics these are also included in a daily fluid allowance. Often a person may be restricted to a limit of 500 to 1000 mls in 24 hours.

It could be for fluid retention but usually when someone has had a stroke serious enough their swallow reflex can be affected and they can choke even with a sip, then possibly choke / aspirate.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Just seen person posted same before me

He may well have been #enduring NHS hell' if waiting for treatment/ overcrowding etc, but it certainly won't have been because of the entirely standard practice of not allowing patients whose swallow may have been affected to drink water!

Many medical reasons for restricting fluids.
One is a fluid challenge when a set amount of fluid is introduced over a period of time and outputs monitored. The idea being if its not coming out in urine where is it going, particularly useful in patients with cardiac issues causing water retention.

Perhaps he was hyponatraemic (low sodium) and fluid restriction is a way to treat this - you're allowed usually 1 or 1.5l fluids a day no more. It's to reduce sodium levels in your blood.

I mean increase levels 🤪

I have heard of old people not being able to drink in care homes, as they just have their drink put on a side table and they are unable to do anything with it, so in my mind I was trying to understand how he could be advocating so strongly for fluids but being unable to access them.

If someone has had a stroke it’s not unusual for their swallow to be affected, and if they can’t swallow properly they can aspirate drinks/food into their lungs. Aspiration pneumonia is quite common in people who’ve had a stroke and can even lead to death, so it’s important that they get a swallow assessment to find out if that’s the case, and they might be on NBM until that point. Then if their swallow is affected, they might be placed on thickened fluids instead of normal drinks (easier to swallow) or sometimes they might be NBM and be on tube feeds/intravenous fluids. It’s difficult to know for sure though and there are so many reasons you might want to put someone on a fluid restriction (fluid overload as others have mentioned, deranged electrolytes etc) but that is one reason.

Or perhaps he needed help to drink, or couldn't get out of bed to fill his water jug.

I've been a visitor recently to a ward where this was happening. I have been filling jugs and helping people have a drink- with the nurses full knowledge - there is no staff to help .

There’s more information that needs to come out whether the water was due to lack of care or nil by mouth situation.
but in some places the care is lacking, the wards are too busy and you can go without , which is tough if you’re bed bound and don’t have a relative around regularly to help.

This is the stuff that frightens me which is probably why I was hoping for clarification. The thought of people being in wards with no ability to access water or food is horrifying.

I'm glad you said 'With nurses' full knowledge' because, as evidenced by the replies above, the last thing anyone needs in this situation is a busybody pouring water into people who are Nil By Mouth for good medical reasons...

I think especially the fact he complained about the senior staff (decision makers) but said the regular staff were good and offering reassurance it very much sounds like a case of medical necessity to reduce fluids, he understandably was in great discomfort and so unhappy with that, and blamed the source of the information.
It definitely doesn't sound like a case of them being too busy to give fluids given the praise for the ward staff.

Makes me sound crazy but I actually got the nurse to put it in writing on their charts. The nurse understood and I've been helping the one small ward with drinks and meals. My friend is getting ready to be transferred, and I can't keep this up unfortunately, but I really worry for those that are bed bound when I no longer visit- it sounds extreme but honestly they are so much brighter since having regular water and food- it is silly things like opening a packet, getting something when dropped, or getting iced water. There isn't enough staff .

People who are frightened and vulnerable (and are possibly not the most health-educated) tend to lash out at medical professionals who are trying to help them.

@Fraaances Your explanation might be right but please don’t blame patients for not knowing!!
The first step should have been to explain it to him in a way he could understand. If he hasn’t understood (and clearly, if this is what he was tweeting, he either wasn’t given any explanation or the explanation was poor), then it’s the HCP responsibility.

Blaming patients for not automatically knowing, being hard work because they’re frightened etc… is just not ok. And unfortunately quite rife amongst HCP.

The first step should have been to explain it to him in a way he could understand. If he hasn’t understood (and clearly, if this is what he was tweeting, he either wasn’t given any explanation or the explanation was poor), then it’s the HCP responsibility.

Or possibly he was told but couldn’t retain the information as he was distressed from the stroke and from feeling thirsty. The fact that he specifically mentioned a litre of water sounds like this was mandated for a medical reason.

My mum is in hospital right now and, although she is ok mentally (broken bone), she is tired and and struggles to retain what the HCPs tell her, so we ring the nurses if we want to check things.

I think the moral of the story here is stop reading the daily mail if you don’t want scare stories that haven’t been properly researched and are reported for sensationalism. Seriously, stop it.

Oh goodness me... Watched Flog it years ago as we bought one of the ''Ten of the best'' items featured on the Show.

I think Michael used to collect old silver?

What a shame, 65 is no age.

@MyNewLife2025 - You can explain your reasons to some people a million ways to Sunday, but unless they hear what they want to hear, they either “misunderstand it” or ignore it. (Like smoking advice, etc.) When patients are on a strict fluid restriction AND diuretics they are dry and thirsty and it makes you very cranky. (I know from experience!) I have even seen a fellow patient sneak icky water from a vase of flowers. Rather than choosing to believe that the nurses were withholding water with their best interests in mind, they were using the same kind of language this man was in his dialogue with the mail, and convincing families to smuggle drinks in as well. (And then complain that the meds stopped working)

That’s why it’s called the daily fail OP. They don’t know anything about the actual situation.

One of the most outrageous things in that article is the line 'Labour's crisis-hit health service'
As if everything was perfect for the previous 14 years. 🙄

He wasn't 65, he was 51. The BBC misreported his age and all the other news outlets copied their error (or, more likely, allowed AI to copy the error for them)