Is expensive living here to stay in the UK?

[BestThingAtThisParty]

Curious of people's thoughts, the MN wisdom and insight is often on the money, so to speak!

Obviously lots of us are either struggling or at the very least having to make a lot of changes to how we live, thanks to the combination of energy, food, mortgage rises. Plus, the knock on to everything else - whether that's businesses also paying out more for the above so charging more, and/or a spot of bandwagon jumping. I may be way off but I really feel there's a mentality in some places that 'everything's more expensive now, so let's just double our prices and see.'

We went out for cake as a birthday treat recently and the hot chocolate was £7! We all had tap water instead - and things like fizzy drinks now costing £4 just makes eating out so crazily expensive, even when it's budgeted for or for a special occasion. A few years ago there were a lot of offers flying around at places, and eating out, tickets to days out etc. were so much more manageable. Now, I feel like we need a minimum of £50 for a lot of stuff for me and the 3 DC. The average burger in a pub I'm sure was around £8/£9 - now it's more like £13-£15 - it's madness. We're in the midlands for reference.

Is this just how it's going to be now? Or do people forsee a change?

I'm definitely having to cut back, can't save much and would worry if a big bill came out of the blue, but can pay the mortgage, feed the kids and get by including still having holidays. But I know it must be so much worse for many people. I was on Universal Credits a few years ago for a year, alongside work, and I could still afford a UK holiday for me and the kids, but sadly can't imagine that's the reality now for people in that situation. And even if the holiday can be paid for, an ice cream or doughnut is probably minimum of a fiver now and fish & chips totally out of the question. It just seems ludicrous😕

Why do you think they would find it stressful to be told "no we can't afford it"?

One of my colleagues doesn't like when another colleague says this. Colleague A is a single mum and I think feels uncomfortable saying to her dc "we can't afford it" etc because they really can't & like the OP she feels the dc are missing out. Colleague B will often say "we can't afford it" but her dc aren't actually missing out. Yes, they may not get the ice cream at the park but they are privately educated, have a holiday home etc so not having the bought sandwich at Legoland really isn't a big deal.

in my opinion to differentiate between needs and wants and instant gratification.

I think if you are relatively comfortable instant gratification is less desirable tbh.

I quite fancy a Loewe Puzzle bag and could buy one but I won't.

I spent a lot more on designer items when I was younger vs now even though I have more money.

My DC never had any gifts bought for them other than Christmas or birthdays and we often said "no its too expensive" or "no we can't afford it" of "no thats a waste of money". Its a healthy and sensible way to raise children who will then make judgments in their own spending as to what they can or cannot afford and what is or is not value for money and will not grow up thinking you can have everything you want.

Saying "no we are not going to Chessington" is not the same as saying "no, we cant afford bread" in terms of causing stress for children.

But why does she feel uncomfortable saying "we can't afford it" when she can't afford it? That implies she feels ashamed for not having more money and to me that is a message promoted heavily by advertising for many years now.

Who could forget those horrible adverts from companies like Littlewoods telling women that the way to make their families happy was to go into debt and pay in weekly parts? Glitzy adverts with smiley white children after she had gone into debt but looking miserable before. We had the decade of "loadsamoney" and "greed is good" and to me a lot of the equating happiness with material wealth seems to date back to then.

I never felt "less good" than the rich kids or ashamed of being poor, even though I'd have liked some of their lifestyle. I think for me it was important that my DC had a very clear sense of what really was essential in life and what made them happy and that casual discretionary spending was irrelevant to both and should be kept firmly in the "mindful squander budget" category.

I think if you are relatively comfortable instant gratification is less desirable tbh

But for many, it follows that they will never be relatively comfortable if they always choose instant gratification. A lot of the time, the only difference between people who have savings and those who don't is not that the people with savings have had more money, but they've saved some of their money rather than spending it all.

A few pounds extra spent per day is a few tens of pounds per week, £100+ per month, £1000+ per year or £10k+ per decade. All due to spending a bit more mindfully and not saying yes to every hot chocolate, ice cream etc that you come across.

But why does she feel uncomfortable saying "we can't afford it" when she can't afford it? That implies she feels ashamed for not having more money and to me that is a message promoted heavily by advertising for many years now.

I think that's exactly how she feels, it's not my position to tell her how to feel.

I guess I don't consider my daily coffee as instant gratification, more a necessity, like buying groceries.

I like having nice things, and while I won't buy everything all at once (I don't have time to do so much shopping, for one thing). I don't needlessly deny myself something that I can easily afford. Who cares if I do or don't? It's my money, and there's no prize for delaying purchases for the sake of it.

Saying "no we are not going to Chessington" is not the same as saying "no, we cant afford bread" in terms of causing stress for children.

There's a middle ground between no bread & regular trips to Chessington. I think the fact she has to say it a lot is what she struggles with. I can't judge because I've not been in the position to having to say no a lot of the time.

I never felt "less good" than the rich kids or ashamed of being poor, even though I'd have liked some of their lifestyle. I

That's a great attitude but I don't think it's very common & advertising wouldn't be the billion dollar industry that it is if the majority felt like you. I think social media amplifies inequality as well. In our society money does matter....

But for many, it follows that they will never be relatively comfortable if they always choose instant gratification. A lot of the time, the only difference between people who have savings and those who don't is not that the people with savings have had more money, but they've saved some of their money rather than spending it all.

I'm not so sure, many people can not chose instant gratification and still not be relatively comfortable. And I do understand the mentality of instant gratification being more attractive if you have less.

But I'm talking about people with the same amount of spare money.

You could have two people who find themselves with £50 spare at the end of the month. One thinks 'great, I can get a takeaway' and it's gone. The other spends £10 on nice pizza from the supermarket and saves £40. Repeat every month for a year and the second person has £500 in savings (because that money will have earned a bit of interest not because I can't work out £40 x 12).

Add in differences in spending on things that vary in cost for pretty much the same thing like mobile phones, cars, clothes, coffees etc or simply shopping around instead of paying full price.

The difference can add up to hundreds of pounds a month without any noticeable difference in lifestyle/possessions, which is thousands of pounds a year or tens of thousands of pounds a decade simply due to thinking a bit more about what you do with your money.

Exactly, rather than spending £10 a day on coffee and lunch three times a week, I take a flask and a packed lunch. £120pcm, about £1500.

Apropos another poster's comments, not frittering on coffee and sandwiches doesn't stop me from buying myself nice underwear. Some may say it funds it and I have borne no disadvantage from making better coffee and a better lunch for less money.

DS and DD have grown up very sensible with money. I do accept, however, that they have a significant safety net.

But I'm talking about people with the same amount of spare money.

Well that wasn't clear & it's a little narrow. The point is lots don't have the same amount of spare money.

DS and DD have grown up very sensible with money. I do accept, however, that they have a significant safety net.

I think a lot of people do not acknowledge the huge benefit this gives, not saying that's you @RosesAndHellebores. Just making the point that I think for some it's easier to say "we can't afford that" if the dc have other privileges vs "we can't afford that" & very little privilege.

The 6 fig cash gift to get on the ladder is what made the biggest difference to our lives. I saved too & very rarely bought lunch etc but I would not have been able to save fast enough without help.

Totally agree with this. My 20yr old cousin doesn’t blink at paying £8 for a bagel in our local cafe. I’m in my 30s with three kids and a big mortgage; I have a drink and eat later.

I still eat out but definitely scale back. No starters and I nurse my drinks.

My child wanted to do an after school art class. They charge £20 an hour for a group class for 5-12 year olds!! Say 6 turn up, that would be £120 per hour!! Crazy.

Yes saying no a lot isn't fun. I then feel stressed as it's a reminder / compounds niggling worries when it keeps coming up. Depends on the children of course though. One DC is like a magpie and always seems to be on the take (lighthearted as he's only 8). One is fine about it all, the other I fear has gone overly sensitive about asking for things, and that's where I worry it will cause them stress. There was a thread about this a while ago, someone said kids may not how to differentiate and if they can't do a club they may put two and two together and think there's no money for the house.

I've started saying 'There's essential money and treat money, we have plenty for the house, food shopping etc - essential. And some for treats but that's limited.' Doesn't stop the 8yo harrassing me though 😆

The fact that we have left the EU is partly why the costs of food and everything have gone up so much. Economists warned everyone this would happen but over half the voting country decided to ignore them.

Even people like Jacob Rees-Mogg who were Brexiteers admitted that it would be costly to leave the EU and that taxes would have to go up.

I can recollect DS, aged about 3, holding up a pair of purple plastic scissors in the Early Learning Centre, shaking his head and saying "it's a lot of money for what it is" 😀

I agree with the pp about the safety net. However, many of the dc's friends had the safety net in spades and were also entitled, spoilt brats, so I think there's merit in saying no regardless. Similarly, I've met some very spoilt people who had/have no safety net and grew up with little.

@Crushed23 I don't think making sure you have a decent emergency fund is hoarding money, maybe you have a safety net, many people do not and if their washing machine broke, it's a bit of a disaster do they hope topick up somethning decent on facebook marketplace or do they go into debt with pyday loan or a loan from curry's with high interest rate. Sometimes keeping a stable home life for your kids means saying no to mcdonalds the cinema and legoland.
I would agree there maybe a small group of people with huge savings still saying they can't afford even very simple treats but this group I think is really rather small, just like there are some older people refusing to put heating on when they have ten's of thousands in the bank and have no good reason to not heat their home, just like there are some pensioners that are really struggling to stay warm and fed

telling a kid we don'tknow if we can stayin the house because we can't afford the costs is a whole lot of stress more than saying we can't go to mcdonalds after the cinema

DD is learning about the causes of the French Revolution at the moment-rising food prices, no money for ordinary people to do anything, looting, rioting, strikes...revolution!

She was saying it feels a bit like England now!

When I say "comfortably afford" I am referring to a scenario where there are plenty of emergency funds and safety nets and whatnot. I see no point in denying myself a coffee, a green juice (I don't eat ice cream haha) or nice underwear for the sake of it. What's the point of working and earning money if you're going to count the pennies and live frugally when there's no need to. That's no way to live, IMO.

I agree that it's about mindset. Some people have an abundance mindset where they don't view the purchase of a coffee as losing out on another area of life that the money could have gone towards. And others have a scarcity mindset. It's probably to do with upbringing, though I haven't done much research into it.

But that is partly my point. I never felt shame and nor did my similarly placed class mates even though there were also children around us who were much better off. None of my friends would have said differently.

I have no doubt it was stressful for my parents - especially when one of my brothers came home (again) with wrecked school shoes which they couldn't afford to replace. However the point the OP and others made was that it would be stressful for DC to tell them somethind cannot be afforded whereas I always felt that implying to DC that money was no object would be a huge mistake.

My point was that advertising and media is pernicious and drives fast and repeating spending on surplus goods and services. Its unhealthy for all of us and its not generation based. It won't change though unless people push back on it rather than passively accept it.

However the point the OP and others made was that it would be stressful for DC to tell them somethind cannot be afforded whereas I always felt that implying to DC that money was no object would be a huge mistake.

As I said I think there's a fairly wide gap between something cannot be afforded and money is no object. I often tell my dc we can't afford something but I am conscious there is plenty we can afford so I understand why others may feel differently when they are saying no to alot. You can disagree though.

My point was that advertising and media is pernicious and drives fast and repeating spending on surplus goods and services. Its unhealthy for all of us and its not generation based. It won't change though unless people push back on it rather than passively accept it.

I think we all understand the perils of capitalism but my point is I can't make others change how they feel.

I agree, OP. We don’t order takeaways
unless it is a real treat, due to the cost. We used to eat out fairly frequently but now it is for special occasions only. We have cut back on going to the cinema and carefully plan family days out to manage costs.

The thing is I have never regarded a takeaway as a treat. We could order in an Indian meal but for four it comes to North of £60 here. There is still a table to set, plates to warm and washing up to do. And the house smells of curry. Often the food isn't that good, except for the local Indian restaurant.

If we want an Indian meal, I prefer to go to the Indian restaurant, sit at their table and be served. The cost isn't much different.

I think we all understand the perils of capitalism but my point is I can't make others change how they feel

But you can (and from what you say you do this) tell children simply that you can't afford something or that its not worth the money and explain why. You can share that with others. It may be small scale but if more people were willing to do this perhaps other parents would feel less anxious about telling their own children when something can't be afforded.

My parents didn't have the budget for sugary cereals which were being heavily promoted to children at the time both with advertising and plastic "free" toys. My mother used to tell us both that she couldn't afford them but also that its a very expensive way of buying sugar and we were welcome to use ordinary sugar on top.

That is a very trivial example but if she had thrown up her hands and bought stuff on tick (as some did) we would rapidly have been in debt on groceries. Instead she taught us both that its ok to say "we can't afford it" and that much of what is advertised is poor value. I still think that is a better policy than pretending we can afford stuff we can't and going into the inevitable debt.