Page 2 | Is Rainbows religious?

FourChimneys · 15/01/2025 08:04

I would find "serving the King" very problematic. No child of mine would be taught to be lesser than anyone else.

My own time in Brownies in the 60s was very short as my parents were chastised for not taking me to the monthly church parades. We were a very atheist family, parading for a god was not something they were willing to give up a Sunday morning for. I'm glad Brownies and Rainbows are less religious now.

TickingAlongNicely · 15/01/2025 08:06

My Cubs have two "Christian" events each year... Remembrance Parade is led by local vicars, (plus poppies on the war graves in the cemetery). Plus Christingle, which about half attend. But we also learn about events from other religions.

Groups can be affliated to any religion or none.
If the Rainbows is run in the church hall, they may have church parades in their "rental" agreement.

ConflictofInterest · 15/01/2025 08:15

@plantmum yes three times! We turned up for rainbows, the hall was dark and the lights are on in the church, I asked if the rainbows are in there and get ushered in yes yes, take a seat. I'd be running a mile but my DD absolutely loves it so I'm stuck with it for the time being.

Needmorelego · 15/01/2025 09:18

@BookyGilly technically the Guides (and Scouts) are not a Christian group. Some of the traditions around saying a prayer or attending a church service will probably be because when the Guides/Scouts began church going or Sunday school was more of the norm and more people attended.
Many groups meet in church halls and are sometimes sponsored by a church but there is no obligation to attend a church service.
Some Scouts groups I believe might be sponsored by a Mosque or Synagogue. I'm not sure if Guides have that.
My daughter went to Rainbows in the local Salvation Army hall and they did say a little prayer at the end but the girls didn't have to join in if they didn't want too. They actually used to read different ones from a book but at 5 some of the girls couldn't read yet.
The prayers were pretty much a "thank you" - for example "Thank You God for the sunshine today". It was easy to just not say "God" if they didn't want to.
The Guides dropped promising to God in their promise a few years ago. I think Scouts have too.

Iloveagoodnap · 15/01/2025 09:20

My daughter's group was held in the church's hall and there were two church services a year, held at normal meeting times and that parents were invited to. We got advance notice and they were always child friendly and they usually got given a little gift at the end. I thought they were nice but at least one parent complained that they shouldn't be happening. I don't think the complaint resulted in anything changing though.

My daughter's now in Brownies and so far no mention of anything to do with church. When I was a Brownie we had church parade once a month and got in trouble if we didn't attend. I don't necessarily want a return to those days but the odd church parade would be nice - I remember the thrill of being chosen to carry the flag!

A few old traditions seem to have gone from Brownies now, or they have at my daughter's pack anyway. No skipping around the toadstool, the origin story of the children learning to be helpful 'Brownies' seems to have disappeared, no having to carry around a bit of string 'just in case!' Etc. It seems a shame to me but my daughter enjoys it anyway.

modgepodge · 15/01/2025 10:02

Iloveagoodnap · 15/01/2025 09:20

My daughter's group was held in the church's hall and there were two church services a year, held at normal meeting times and that parents were invited to. We got advance notice and they were always child friendly and they usually got given a little gift at the end. I thought they were nice but at least one parent complained that they shouldn't be happening. I don't think the complaint resulted in anything changing though.

My daughter's now in Brownies and so far no mention of anything to do with church. When I was a Brownie we had church parade once a month and got in trouble if we didn't attend. I don't necessarily want a return to those days but the odd church parade would be nice - I remember the thrill of being chosen to carry the flag!

A few old traditions seem to have gone from Brownies now, or they have at my daughter's pack anyway. No skipping around the toadstool, the origin story of the children learning to be helpful 'Brownies' seems to have disappeared, no having to carry around a bit of string 'just in case!' Etc. It seems a shame to me but my daughter enjoys it anyway.

What! No toadstool! This is devastating to me. I can still remember the little song we had to sing in our six, and the rhyme that the whole group said whenever anyone said their promise. My daughter is in rainbows now and I was looking forward to the brownie bit for nostalgia value (I didn’t do rainbows myself so couldnt tell you what’s changed there).

budgiegirl · 15/01/2025 11:54

I would find "serving the King" very problematic. No child of mine would be taught to be lesser than anyone else

I don't think it's supposed to be take too literally. In Scouts we say "to do my duty to The King", and it's taken that the King is a figurehead to represent the country. So we're promising to due our duty to our country, by following laws, respecting others, getting involved in the community etc

Iloveagoodnap · 15/01/2025 12:23

@modgepodge I remember all the Sixes' songs too and told my daughter about them but her Sixes are names of animals and they don't have songs.

I was quite disappointed by her Promise ceremony. When I did it it was a big thing to learn your promise off by heart and you had to bring in cakes you'd made and serve them with tea and coffee to the parents to earn your Hostess badge as your first badge. And we had the toadstool and a pretend lake, and a wise old owl toy that just came out for this ceremony etc. To a seven year old it was really quite a special night. At my daughter's she had to repeat each bit of the promise after the leader said it and then got given a promise badge and we all clapped. That was pretty much it. It didn't matter to her as she knew no different but I felt my ceremony, back in the late 80s, was much better!

AngryLikeHades · 15/01/2025 12:33

So you don't have to attend church parade whilst processing with a flag? How things have changed! I remember being told I should go as much as possible to that part of it.
I've never thought about whether all Rainbows and guides are attached to a church and/or requested to do parade etc. Has it always been the case that they are not always attached in this way? I remember repeating the oath about serving Queen and God etc.

Needmorelego · 15/01/2025 12:37

@AngryLikeHades my sister's Brownie Pack was held in a church hall. Mine was held in a school hall. My mum was a Tawney Owl for a while and her pack met at the local Scout hut.
That was all in the 80s.

GuidingSpirit · 15/01/2025 13:02

Iloveagoodnap · 15/01/2025 12:23

@modgepodge I remember all the Sixes' songs too and told my daughter about them but her Sixes are names of animals and they don't have songs.

I was quite disappointed by her Promise ceremony. When I did it it was a big thing to learn your promise off by heart and you had to bring in cakes you'd made and serve them with tea and coffee to the parents to earn your Hostess badge as your first badge. And we had the toadstool and a pretend lake, and a wise old owl toy that just came out for this ceremony etc. To a seven year old it was really quite a special night. At my daughter's she had to repeat each bit of the promise after the leader said it and then got given a promise badge and we all clapped. That was pretty much it. It didn't matter to her as she knew no different but I felt my ceremony, back in the late 80s, was much better!

The traditional sixes still exist and many units still use a toadstool and read the brownie story. The animals and mythical creatures have been added alongside the fairy folk. The toadstool and story has just moved out of the "official" programme into more of a tradition.

The hostess badge only disappeared with the current new programme in 2019. There has been a bit of upset that nothing really replaced it for the reasons you highlight. There are going to be new interest badges released in the next year or so and I believe that one of them is going to be a party planner type badge. I suspect very much that lots of units will use this for the promise ceremony.

The other point which is relevant is that lots and lots of units are really struggling with volunteers. There is lots of research that since the pandemic, the numbers of people volunteering has reduced and charities are struggling. I admit that my promise ceremonies are quite low key at the end of term because I don't have capacity to organise a big event every term for parents around a FT job, my own 2 DC plus all the admin and planning that goes into getting through the term so that everyone gets a chance to receive a badge. And believe me, the amount admin nowadays is huge. I spend hours a week on it. I'm hoping that maybe the new badge will help as we'll be able to kill two birds with one stone by getting more girls through the programme as well as doing something special for parents.

CCLCECSC · 15/01/2025 13:08

My eldest completed Rainbows last year and the only religious association was the venue; it took place in the Church Hall. Nothing else in her 2.5y stint.

smallchange · 15/01/2025 13:22

modgepodge · 15/01/2025 10:02

What! No toadstool! This is devastating to me. I can still remember the little song we had to sing in our six, and the rhyme that the whole group said whenever anyone said their promise. My daughter is in rainbows now and I was looking forward to the brownie bit for nostalgia value (I didn’t do rainbows myself so couldnt tell you what’s changed there).

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Did you sing
"We're Brownie Guides, we're Brownie Guides, we're here to Lend a Hand
To love our god and serve our Queen and help our homes and lands
We've Brownie friends, we've Brownie friends, in North, South, East and West
We'll join together in our wish to try to do our best."

I've just realised that's still in my head 35 years on (Edit: 45 years on!)

CeciliaMars · 15/01/2025 13:27

My daughters' Rainbows was reallly religious. And a bit crap. Lots of pledging allegiances and colouring uff Twinkl. Brownies is much better. Think it depends on the people that run it!

TickingAlongNicely · 15/01/2025 13:32

smallchange · 15/01/2025 13:22

Did you sing
"We're Brownie Guides, we're Brownie Guides, we're here to Lend a Hand
To love our god and serve our Queen and help our homes and lands
We've Brownie friends, we've Brownie friends, in North, South, East and West
We'll join together in our wish to try to do our best."

I've just realised that's still in my head 35 years on (Edit: 45 years on!)

Edited

Show quote history

That has been going round in my head all morning!

We never had Church parade, I was a bit jealous that my brother got to carry a flag o parades

smallchange · 15/01/2025 13:37

TickingAlongNicely · 15/01/2025 13:32

That has been going round in my head all morning!

We never had Church parade, I was a bit jealous that my brother got to carry a flag o parades

Show quote history

Carrying the flag in the Guides colour party was one of my highlights. I was so paranoid about remembering to dip the flag when entering the church because it was a huge company legend that some inept Scout had broken the little stained glass window above the door once.

Colour party & Guide/Scout disco - the two best things about the uniformed orgs. The disco was absolute carnage.

justasoul · 15/01/2025 13:41

Iloveagoodnap · 15/01/2025 09:20

My daughter's group was held in the church's hall and there were two church services a year, held at normal meeting times and that parents were invited to. We got advance notice and they were always child friendly and they usually got given a little gift at the end. I thought they were nice but at least one parent complained that they shouldn't be happening. I don't think the complaint resulted in anything changing though.

My daughter's now in Brownies and so far no mention of anything to do with church. When I was a Brownie we had church parade once a month and got in trouble if we didn't attend. I don't necessarily want a return to those days but the odd church parade would be nice - I remember the thrill of being chosen to carry the flag!

A few old traditions seem to have gone from Brownies now, or they have at my daughter's pack anyway. No skipping around the toadstool, the origin story of the children learning to be helpful 'Brownies' seems to have disappeared, no having to carry around a bit of string 'just in case!' Etc. It seems a shame to me but my daughter enjoys it anyway.

My DD was a brownie less than 10 years ago and she had to carry string, a coin (for the phone box ) and something else that I can’t remember - but the programme changed in 2018/9-ish so maybe they got rid of all that.

modgepodge · 15/01/2025 13:45

smallchange · 15/01/2025 13:22

Did you sing
"We're Brownie Guides, we're Brownie Guides, we're here to Lend a Hand
To love our god and serve our Queen and help our homes and lands
We've Brownie friends, we've Brownie friends, in North, South, East and West
We'll join together in our wish to try to do our best."

I've just realised that's still in my head 35 years on (Edit: 45 years on!)

Edited

Show quote history

YES!!!

then each six had a little song. I can’t actually remember mine - it was Scottish kelpies and I think i didn’t ever actually know what the word which rhymed with kelpies was/meant? But the pixies sang ‘here we are the jolly pixies, helping others in our sizes’ for example.

then at the end we sang ‘brownie bells’ -
oh lord our god
Thy children call
grant us thy peace
and bless us all.

now that I think about it that’s quite religious 😂

when I started guides we sang TWO verses of the national anthem at the start!!

mitogoshigg · 15/01/2025 13:45

My local one is standalone so church is very much optional but at my previous work we had a sponsored scouts meaning they paid no rent for the church, the flip side was the vicar went once a month to meetings and once a month they came to church, it wasn't compulsory but parents seemed to accept that the ridiculously cheap subs and volunteers came from somewhere!

If you aren't keen on church you need to be paying market rate for your child care

RhubarbThumb · 20/02/2025 17:00

plantmum · 14/01/2025 21:56

Joined the Rainbows waiting list on a nostalgic whim and the place finally came up. DD (4.5) went tonight and she loved it, but perusing the info, they have 'church parades' and they get certificates for attending. Is Rainbows quite Christian? I thought they were more secular these days.

Depends if they're sponsored by a church. Many are, a d get subsidised hall rates etc in return for a monthly church parade.

RhubarbThumb · 20/02/2025 17:02

CeciliaMars · 15/01/2025 13:27

My daughters' Rainbows was reallly religious. And a bit crap. Lots of pledging allegiances and colouring uff Twinkl. Brownies is much better. Think it depends on the people that run it!

There should have been no Twinkl crap, GG provides all/most of the resources. They don't have much time to veer from the programme.

RhubarbThumb · 20/02/2025 17:08

FourChimneys · 15/01/2025 08:04

I would find "serving the King" very problematic. No child of mine would be taught to be lesser than anyone else.

My own time in Brownies in the 60s was very short as my parents were chastised for not taking me to the monthly church parades. We were a very atheist family, parading for a god was not something they were willing to give up a Sunday morning for. I'm glad Brownies and Rainbows are less religious now.

🙄