TV license officers threatening me

[Lovelybitofsquirrel3]

This is a bit long.
Backstory, at my previous address I got a letter about not having a TV license. I called to explain I don't need one but the person I was speaking to still kept me on the phone for a while, and even after them going over what counts as live TV and me explaining I only watch things like disney+, they were very threatening as they were saying things like ''if you are found to be watching TV'' and the whole speech and threatening that if an officer visits and finds TV equipment I could be prosecuted. After a short few months of not receiving letters, they started again.
Since moving to my new address, I have been receiving the previous tenants sky tv letters and debt collection letters, threatening bailiffs, including a sky hub. It's really frustrating. I attempted to contact sky to explain that he doesn't live here but they insisted they couldn't do anything. I couldn't find the man named on the letters to contact him. I even tried making a local facebook post to ask if anyone knew him and not a single person replied.
I've been getting letters from the TV licensing agency and binned them each time, I didn't want to phone them because of my previous experience, and information online suggested that it was an empty threat and they would do nothing. But at the end of the year I got a letter about an upcoming visit from an enforcement officer. They never arrived. I've just received one again today, I'll comment underneath with a photo of it. I have cropped out the top and bottom in case the named officer can identify the area I live in, but the bottom says that a report will be sent to the prosecutor fiscal who will decide on prosecution. The link they've given where I can update I don't need a license online is actually broken and not functional.
I can't remember where I read it, but apparently receiving letters from sky can be seen as proof that I'm watching live TV, or having a TV can be seen as proof. I also have a satellite connected to the house that was here when I moved.
I haven't done anything wrong but I feel really afraid. The letter reads that if I dont answer they can keep coming back at any time of day. I don't understand why they can go around threatening people like this. I'm thinking about calling the police over it but that might be an over reaction.

To fund the BBC, mainly.

@Pemba

To be fair, I've heard quite a few reports of both: those who are believed and left alone but also those that are ignored and pursued.

I don't know whether some of their agents are more pigheaded (I'm sure they would say 'driven') than others or just more desperate for commissons/promotions/avoiding sanctions for underselling - just like any other salespeople.

Maybe they work to stereotypes as to whom they believe is probably lying; or maybe they go after the people whom they may see as a soft touch - i.e. those who are clearly worried by their threats and respond 'apologetically' politely, as opposed to those who are forthright and clearly not ones to be intimidated?

I'm sure they would try to justify it by claiming that they need to 'check back from time to time', as residents and circumstances can often change - and their interpretation of 'checking back from time to time' may well be the same as many other people's definition of threatening and harassing.

I can't help thinking that it would be a dream job for the arrogant, bullying kind, who would love the power trip. After all, every other sales position requires you to convince the customer that they should choose to buy from you; uniquely with TV licensing, they can intimidatingly expect you to justify to them why you don't want or need their product.

I had one show up asking if I lived there. Well now. If you know who lives there you'd already have their name and be asking for the person by name. If someone were looking for me they'd know me by sight at least and know that I lived there. So anyone asking if I live there is some fucking chancer looking to extract information from me. Get wise OP and just don't answer questions from random strangers.

I just asked who they were, out of curiosity. TV licensing. Told them there's no TVs here. Shut the door. They haven't been back since. I imagine the letters will start up again at some point.

I haven't told them with a phone call or form that I don't need a license because why should I waste my time doing that? Why should I give them my name so that they can send personalised threatening letters, instead of "to the occupier", which will undoubtedly make me feel worse when I read them? A few people I've known have told them they don't need a license and they just ignored it and started up with the letters again three months later, so I figured telling them is a waste of time anyway.

OP the TV licensing people who door-knock have no rights to come into your home to check, just say No. They're not going to bother prosecuting you when they've got no evidence, it would be very expensive for them to prosecute everyone without a license and lose because they don't need a license. If you're not watching live TV or iPlayer and don't have a TV, then they can't have any evidence you're watching it can they, it isn't possible for them to have evidence of something that isn't happening.

It's an offense to watch TV without a license. It's not an offense to not tell them you don't need a license.

They can't get a warrant for your arrest without grounds for doing so. If they've caught you watching live TV by looking through your windows, then you're in trouble. Otherwise if you've done nothing wrong then forget about it.

They make out they've got x-ray vision and can see what everyone is upto at all times. They can't, they're not God! It's intimidation tactics, like everything else they do. They don't come on the date in their letters either. It says on there "Are you home at X day? We'll come then or any other day of our choice", it's not even an appointment! They're just trying to scare you into paying for a license.

If they're taking someone to court they'll need the person's name. Even if they get your name off the electoral roll (in future ensure you tick the box to make it private, so all and sundry can't see who lives there), so what? If their "evidence" is letters from Sky, those letters aren't in your name and that person doesn't live at your address. So they have no evidence then. They'll lose their case. The sodding letters aren't even about a currently running Sky contract, they're about a debt. Just make sure you show up to court if your name is on the summons otherwise they'll win by default.

Write (don't phone, as you've found out it's a waste of time) to Sky and any other firms sending debt letters. There will be an address somewhere on the letter. Tell them the person they're looking for "Mr X" no longer lives at the address since "Y date" when you moved in. Tell them you don't know this person, don't know where they live, don't have any contact details for them and that this debt is nothing to do with you. Tell them to not write to your address about this debt again. It'll cost you a bit in stamps and time, but majority of them will permanently fuck off if you do this.

If "bailiffs" turn up (they usually aren't, they're just debt collectors) it's unlikely they have any power. They certainly can't take anything of yours regardless, because you are not the debtor.

Don't get into conversation with them beyond that. Some unscrupulous ones will try to get you to pay, they just want money and they don't care who from. Don't pay them anything just to make them go away. Paying towards a debt can sometimes be seen as you taking responsibility for it.

I know you get parcels but if you open the door and can't see a parcel, don't listen to whatever they're saying just interrupt them to ask if they have a parcel to deliver, if the answer is no then shut the door.

Yes but I was advised that opening letters intended for someone else was illegal so I didn’t do anything because I didn’t want to be prosecuted for that.

FFS OP are you usually this paranoid? Unless you're opening their post, gathering their information and stealing their identity/money etc, nobody is prosecuting you for opening post that arrives at your address. Especially if it looks like debt letters.

Don’t worry about the debt collectors/baliffs/high court sheriff etc if they are not looking for you they will politely leave once you have explained the person they are looking for moved away some time ago.
I have had many debt collectors etc at my door for other people.

You need to fill in the form to say you don't need one. The Sky stuff is nothing to do with this, the letters aren't for you but you do need to sort this out as a separate thing.

Lol...ignore it!

I don't know if it's still the case but it used to be that if you bought a TV your details were passed on to TV Licensing.

OP you mention Procurator Fiscal, so I’m assuming you’re in Scotland, where we don’t have bailiffs, we have sheriff officers, They’re not the exact equivalent of bailiffs and have different powers, although their aim is the same. I think you’re getting yourself into an awful stew about something that’s easily fixed.

I moved into a house where the previous owners left a lot of creditors, who sent official letters and officers to the house. They stayed on the doorstep and left as soon as they saw id.

Follow the advice from pp and deal with this online and send back letters.

Just ignore them. Bullying cunts. I once had one of their 'officers' try to force his way into my home. I was a single parent with a baby at the time. I cancelled my licence about 10 years ago. You can fill in the form online. They then expect you to do this every 2 years. I did it a couple of times and thought fuck this. Why the hell should I have to prove I don't use a service. It's up to them to prove you do. I haven't filled in an online declaration for at least 6 years, I just ignore the emails now, and they've left me alone. I'll never buy a licence again due to the way they conduct theirselves.

I'd just fill in online as PP have given you the link. You seem quite anxious about it so that would presumably make you feel better unless you want to go down the militant road.
For the rest absolutely return to sender. The other thing I've done in the past is contact sky or whomever via X with a DM or via the Contact Us page on their website saying I've received a letter addressed to Mr Joe Bloggs at this address but he's not at this address. This means I've at least shown that I've notified them which I thought would be useful if approach by bailiffs. Although they just accepted my message and nothing more came of it

Just ignore it, it’s a standard letter. As long as you’re not using live tv services if they visit, there’s nothing to worry about. The easiest option is to compete the declaration and they will leave you lone for 6/12 months.

Personally, I got fed up of filling in their declaration for our yard (seperate address, so I just ignore the letters in the hope they turn up and I can show them the Shetland only watches Netflix….

As PP have said, it took a quick google to find the link to declare you don't need a licence. Fill it in.

Don't bin other people's letters, write 'NO LONGER AT THIS ADDRESS' and put them back in the letterbox. Keep doing it until they stop.

It's a scam @Lovelybitofsquirrel3.

The BBC may be many things but they are not illiterate.

If you do watch live TV, why don’t you have a license?

My reaction to that letter is 'and you may be told to fuck off'. You don't actually have to open the door or let them in.

You don't have to call them, you can just fill out the No Licence needed declaration online.

Genuinely they don’t know if you’re watching live TV and never turn up. I had letters like that for more than a year and they didn’t.

They don’t know you specifically live at that address, just that there’s been a change in occupier. They def don’t get your details when you buy a new TV!

To try to answer some of the questions on this thread (and some that are worth asking).

• TVL isn't an official agency. It has nothing to do with the government. It is simply a BBC brand name, intended to distance the enforcement operation from the BBC and give it some gravitas.
• The main mechanism for enforcement is sending letters and making house calls. Neither of these things have any legal weight behind them and can be ignored.
• TVL is well known for the deceptive language in their letters. The OP's letter is a standard one received by millions of people every year. The one thing it doesn't mean is that TVL are on their way.
• In reality, TVL has 165 staff to cover house calls for the entire country. That means that the chances of actually receiving a house call are fairly low. And you can ignore them or send them away, anyway.
• There are no Dealer Notifications of TV sales, and the legislation was abolished over 10 years ago. It's possible that some retailers leak or sell data, but it isn't of any great value to TVL, so probably not.
• In Scotland, there are no TVL search warrants. In Scotland, TV Licence offences are dealt with (usually) by a fixed penalty fine from the Procurator Fiscal's office, and require a greater level of proof (corroboration) than in England and Wales. If they are seeking to prosecute, then 2 staff members would need to attend. If only one staff member attends then it is not possible for them to prosecute in Scotland.
• It's up to individuals whether they want to fill in the "No Licence" form. Personally, I don't, and there are two good reasons: (a) if they subsequently accuse you of evasion, then they will treat you more harshly if you have previously filled in their form, and (b) if filling in the form gives them a valid email address, they will begin using it to try to detect iPlayer usage, in which case they will send you warning emails/letters.

They are very difficult to deal with. I cancel my licence every year for a few months whilst out if the country. They make it as difficult as possible.

They are not having my money for nothing either.

Generally speaking, you shouldn't open letters that aren't addressed to you, although sometimes it may be the most effective way to deal with them.

With official letters that have a return address on the back, simply cross out the original name & address on the front and write something suitable like "moved away", or "return to sender" on the front. You can put such unopened, readdressed letters into a post box free of charge.

I'd also suggest returning any TVL letters that are addressed to "The Legal Occupier". This is also free to do following the process above. Millions of TVL letters are returned every year, and it gives the Royal Mail and TVL a problem of their own creation to deal with.

But why do you need to go to the trouble to tell them?

Nobody is telling me that I need to inform Tesco if I've got my shopping from Asda this week instead - or am using stuff up from the freezer.

I think it's still the case, but it's a very outdated principle.

These days, people use TVs for streaming, gaming, Netflix, catchup from non-BBC channels etc. Watching love TV is no longer THE only reason for buying a TV set; very far from it.

Also, how do they know that you haven't bought a telly for a present for somebody else (maybe an elderly person buying a gift for an adult child or grandchild), for use at a different address; or even if you did originally buy it to watch live TV, you may have since decided that you no longer want to, and thus no longer need a licence.

There aren't any Dealer Notifications any more for exactly the reasons you've suggested.

The main method by which TVL prosecutes people is confession. They aren't generally gathering physical evidence of evasion, and don't go equipped with cameras etc. so it would be difficult for them to do so.

This means that speaking with them is a fundamentally bad idea. Maybe they will treat you fairly, and maybe not. Both in England & Wales (under PACE) and in Scotland (under more general principles) you have a right not to speak to TVL under caution, and you should use this right.

TVL use a pre-formatted interview form that somewhat presumes guilt, so it is best avoided.

You also shouldn't sign any of their paperwork, and there is no legal requirement to do so.

I don't watch TV and I've been getting these letters for 20 years. I did contact them to say I don't watch TV, but they continued to pester me so I decided contacting them is pointless. The unopened letters now go straight in the shredder.

They have never knocked on my door, and if they did I wouldn't let them in. I do know a family (who don't watch TV) who successfully sued them for harassment! Like you, in the beginning I found the letters worrying, but now I know it's an empty threat. The letters are addressed to The Occupier. They don't even know my name, so how on earth would they take me to court?!

Please don't worry. You've done nothing wrong so you have no need to defend yourself. Don't waste anymore time or energy on their nonsense :)