Middle class but no money

[roopiea]

Does anyone else feel like this?

We would say we are middle class. Both university educated and privately schooled. In our 50s now. Parents had similar professions to us.

We work for the public sector, a teacher and management in local government. We live in a pretty reasonable part of the country. But we still feel we have no money for being in the middle class? We probably earn a combined 80k a year but live in a pretty bog standard 3 bed semi. Have holidays in places like Spain or Greece.

Whereas our neighbours are blue collar workers but seem to have so much more money than us. My best friend and her husband work similar jobs and they have a nicer house and better holidays than us.

If by "Fairly sure a lot of trades don't pay full tax..." you mean most trades people employ decent accountants and so reduce their tax liability, then I agree with you.

There is no virtue in paying more tax than you are obliged to.

Wtf that's over 3 times my income and I have a nice car and holidays abroad

Show me a country without a class system.

In your own time.

Income is only one part of the equation, outgoings /assets are probably more relevant to lifestyle in a world where house /rent prices are bonkers

Lots of people raise a family on that. There's 4.3 million children in relative low income households according to the government which is 30%. Relative low income refers to people living in households with income below 60% of the median in a given year. Just because you personally may not know people raising kids on that income it's ridiculous to say it's not happening.

That’s the key, and it means that those of us who worked up under the old promises of it meaning something have been stabbed in the back.

There is no point in education now. I have left the sector as have many educated women I know - I am not lying to kids about working hard and learning leading to rewards and I am not participating in creating educated slaves. Especially not while the wages of male-dominated relatively unskilled jobs in transport go through the roof. It’s taking the piss.

Education itself, btw, the sector that above all should be promoting meritocracy, proves the point daily while TAs are left holding classes on minimum wage and recruitment is based mostly on who you know and socialise with. No wonder the boys treat the predominantly women staff like shit, with 5 years olds coming out with the misogynistic attitudes learned from the fathers. We can all see how much value women have, even when educated.

This^ especially for their age. If they were early 30s it would be one thing but for well established professionals in their 50s, they’re earning the salaries of people 20+ years younger who will be focused on moving up the career ladder

This thread is fascinating!

My folks didn't get a good return on investment on my private school tuition...I'm a middle manager at a uni and my husband is a self employed musician (wc roots). I'm often accused of being posh by people who have way more money than us (which is an insult as they have also told me they think posh people are lazy and stupid 🫠). I personally don't care for the class system but both husband and I have become accustomed to the different way our families operate. We take the kids camping in France, best holiday ever!

Sadly class and financial status are two different things. And this is a question that has been raising its head for centuries in this country.

As has already been stated, traditionally social class is pretty outdated now, because sadly, in many areas education does not count for what it once was and no longer guarantees a good wage.

Many trades people will earn more than you, and that's because its more physically demanding and you have a limited shelf life. However, some of that money has to go on private pensions.

You on the other hand are a teacher and a government worker. I just left the private sector not so long ago for less money...yes that sound weird but in the Civil Service I get a massive pension contribution which makes up the difference. Like you, I am speculating to accumulate. A lot of working class people are on the breadline and will be so right into and including their retirement. Its unlikely you or I will be in this position.

I started life as working class, based on the education of my parents. But Dad got a really good wage, a really nice house and we even had a pony. Mum and Dad split up and we ended up on a council estate...and I flourished. All three of us kids got degrees, two of us own our homes outright and all have above average income. My husband is a professional (also from a Council Estate) and I am a Senior Manager in the Civil Service and we are both in a Union. So what social class are we now? I identify as working class, because that is who I feel I am. Technically, we are both middle class, based on our education, property, lifestyle and professions.

But I am not rich or even well off. We have three kids who are never going to get on the housing ladder, rental is extortionate and quite frankly we could retire if we didn't want to try help them. And that's the other thing, we have a house that is paid for and we know that one or both of us will end up in care and the kids are unlikely to get anything and that/s why we need to help now. I could actually do with retiring early due to my caring responsibilities but if I do, I won't be able to afford the travelling I need to do for my caring responsibilities or help the kids.

I know a couple of Oxford and Cambridge graduate, living in London in 1 bed flat but they are very happy

There is nothing new in this. Back in the 1970s the BBC had a sitcom called "Beggar my Neighbour" based on the premise that a skilled tradesman earned far more than the middle manager employed by the same firm that he lived next door to.

Absolutely agree with this. Unless you have inherited wealth the people who are best off in my experience are trade people working for themselves paying minimal tax - sometimes on benefits with a side hustle.

It all comes down to debt. How much do you have on credit what loans etc do you have are you paying fees for kids or grand kids etc etc

Yeah my kids have told me how their dad has wodges of cash in envelopes at their house (he's self employed).
Avoids him paying cash and paying me proper maintenance.
I didn't say anything to the kids of course, but i think the reality is a lot of people do this

actually forgot this, after a guy ( lovely though) took around 3 - 4 k for few rooms of someone I know recently for work around 2.5 days

Comparing middle class professions with trades can be misleading. Teachers have a fantastic pension and trades will only have a private pension. To get the equivalent pension they’d have to be investing at least a third of their income.

Trades also take a hell of a toll on your body physically. It’s great if you can move into a more managerial or office based role later but that’s not open to everyone.

Show me the line in my quote where I said other countries don’t have class systems.

In your own time.

The above was addressed to

@ MyOtherCarisAVauxhallZafira
If that's more than 3 times your family income, one of you earns minimum wage and the other doesn't work, most people don't raise a family on that

The sum in question was 26k!

I talk to my neighbors about the weather, our gardens, the annoying man who doesn’t pick up after his dog.

they don’t tell me who paid for their new sofa😂.

where do you live that you know the private financial business of so many neighbors??

Definitely if they are both qualified trades will be earning above that between them. I assumed OP meant like a warehouse worker or something minimum wage

Somebody recently posted on a local facebook group asking what the going rate was through a decent builder and the standard response back was at least £450 a day. A labourer gets over £100 a day. Compare those rates to a teacher's daily earnings and you'll start to see the gap. Trade rates have grown waaaay faster than traditional white collar salaries especially since Covid.

that is the case now all over this country.

Squeezed middle that’s me. Educated to masters degree level, work in NHS band 7, if it wasn’t for an inheritance I’d probably be living in a bed sit in zone 5. I week holiday with kids this year staying in cousins house in France ( although did go away for a couple of breaks in Europe and in Wales with DH) Went for a walk on Boxing Day through the most expensive part of the borough and saw the local roofer’s van parked in residential parking area outside a poshtastic new build.

Just curious, what makes you middle class? Do you mean mid-earners?

I'm very glad I teach in a girls' grammar school tbh. Largely very polite students (from a wide variety of cultures and socio-economic backgrounds) who value their education. We often hear back from past students about the interesting and impressive jobs they are doing. Most will do 'normal' jobs of course, or be SAHMs, but I certainly don't despair of their futures. We are lucky that, because of the nature of the school, we don't have as much trouble recruiting or retaining teachers as most schools do.