Do most choirs have some annoying thing?

[Choirsinging]

I joined a choir at the beginning of this year, and in the main I’ve really enjoyed it. But there’s a couple of things I don’t like about the way some of it’s done, and I just wondered if most choirs are going to have some kind of politics or drama going on? I’m not going to say what the things are, because they’re probably quite small compared to other choirs, and I know it’s not a democracy and someone has to make the decisions.

I love the community feel and I just wondered if I’m really going to find another one that’s perfect, or if I should just accept there’ll always be something I don’t like, especially at other choirs night have way more stuff going on.

I tried a ladies barbershop, which was very funky but I swiftly realised no one could read music except the pianist - fine if you don't need to, but they were literally singing things wrong and not understanding why. Even the most basic errors required a huge debate amongst the singers as to whether a sharp was a half tone difference up or down with mass inspections of the music and Google... I accept I'm a music snob, but I didn't want to deal with that level of argument five times a night.

I'm now in a philharmonic which is a bit cliquey, but I'm loving the music and the musical skill in the room and ignoring the territorial old people who've been there for centuries and who don't like pipsqueaks in their 40s rocking up.

Just as a school without a bullying policy is full of bullies, so an organisation that pretends hierarchies don't exist will have them in abundance, all unspoken but with huge repercussions when breached. Add the very personal notion of artistic expression into the mix and things can get brutal. Musical ability alone is not sufficient to be a good choirmaster, sadly. Possibly the best training is nursery worker.

No politics or drama in my choir!

I've experienced good and bad. In the same choir when there was a change of choir director. I'll just say that there followed ANOTHER change of choir director, and peace returned.
As to trying different choirs, why wouldn't you? Every one is different. Different music styles, different abilities, different personalities, small and intimate or large and barnstorming. I have several friends who are in more than one choir, sometimes so they can sing both pop and classical, or both easygoing and challenging.
Have fun trying them out!

I was in a woman only choir. Reasonably high standard competing choir. Really sociable but a definite hierarchy with those that had been members for 30 years at the top. Was supposedly a democracy with committee voted in but old members shouted down any requests to change anything.

Current choir is a one person dictatorship with entry by audition before you step inside the door. I like the honesty of it. We know where we stand. I’m currently tolerating it because the standard is high, we perform a fair bit and the people are really nice.

I was considering doing a trial session with Rock Choir - mainly because I love singing but I’m not actually very good and Rock Choir say that’s ok.
I’m now a bit put off

I’ve heard really good things about two different rock choirs. It’s a franchise I think so not in their interest to give people a poor experience. I’d consider Rock Choir myself but I like the challenge of my current choir (takes my mind off every day life).

I think most of them have some annoying "things". It depends how serious the things are. If they are minor irritations you can live with then you wouldn't be better off elsewhere because there's likely to be minor irritations there too. But if it's major things then maybe start looking for somewhere which is a better fit. The major things would be things like not enjoying the choice of music (boring programming, styles you don't like, always singing the same things); the standard (well above or well below your standard); cliquiness and nasty vibes.

I'm an organist in Austria (name changed for this). I work with a lot of visiting choirs at the church where I am employed. You can sense straightaway that with the majority of them, there's some kind of tension going on between people. Some are worse than others. Quite often there'll be one or two people who are not the conductor who will come over and start telling me what to do. I don't put up with any of that. I'm a professional organist and I take direction from the conductor only, not from randoms who are trying to boss me about. Those types are often also bossing around others in the choir. More often than not it's men who behave like that. I'm female and they think they need to mansplain things to me.

I also play another instrument in a mix of groups - some amateur and some professional. These are very similar to choirs in that the majority of the amateur ones (professional ones are better) involve some irritating issues.
I think it's because of group dynamics in general where you get people wanting to be more prominent/dominant and to push through their ideas but in addition to that you get the added issue of people's musical egos.
There's quite a lot of people thinking they play/sing better than others and wanting to prove that when in fact that might not be the case at all. A lot of people have reached a decent standard on their instrument (and I include the voice when I refer to instrument) without realizing how far they actually are from a professional standard. And that's fine, not everyone can be a professional. But if you then have new members joining the group who are at a higher standard it can be a shock to the system of the existing members when they realize they aren't actually that great in the grand scheme of things and that can lead to a lot of nastiness and bitchiness.

I've played and sung in so many groups over the years and I've left many of them because things just weren't working for me. I've always said that a group has to provide me with either a) a great musical experience or b) a great social experience (preferably both, but that's actually difficult to find). If a group isn't providing either then it's time to leave.

It's your spare time, it's a leisure activity, you're not earning a living from it so you don't have to waste time on something that you're not enjoying, irrespective of what the reason for your lack of enjoyment is.

Just go. I'm in a 'fun' community choir who don't audition. I'm not very good but I do make an effort to learn the harmonies to try and make up for that. There are no dramas, helped by us not doing public performances.

Well i did 10 years in Rock choir and left after Covid as it felt like all I was was a cash machine to them, shame as the rehearsals were fun but it is so massive ( 100 plus at rehearsals) it's hard to make any kind of friends.
Tried 3 other choirs before finding my current community choir which is super relaxed and great fun, try a few and find your fit! We don’t have any divas but we do have designated seats so no arguments there!

I left my community choir some years ago as the politics - both big and small P - overwhelmed the undoubted musical, social and psychological benefits of the singing.

The 'things' were:

Overbearing diva types

Cliques

Insistence that they were so right on and performatively democratic ( a vote was taken on every bloody thing) when in reality the absolute opposite was the case. ( as a pp upthread astutely observed)

Financial shenanigans

Complete disrespect for the MD - chattering etc.

These people were in the minority. Most were fine. But the few bad apples ( most of whom had positions of power - either silently or in reality as committee members) spoiled it for me.

Unfortunately I have few other options. I have been told I have a good voice but learn by ear, so anything more formal is out of scope really. And now my health means I can't travel any distance now anyway.

I'd urge you to explore other choirs!

My choir is fab.
The musical director chooses geat music, arranges it well, non auditioned, no solos, no politics.

Same here..

I am part of a Tuneless Choir of around 50 members. No drama, every one is friendly, enthusiastic and just keen to enjoy themselves with their love of singing, even if we aren’t hitting the right notes!

I never pick up on this stuff so I only know about any from being on the choir committee! But it's mostly pretty chilled.

Our main problem is our conductor will have to retire before too long but he refuses to plan for a successor and gets rather offended when it's raised!

No, it isn't a franchise, all the choir leaders work for them, and all the choirs in the country learn the same songs with the same arrangement at the same time. They all perform locally, but occasionally get together in a huge venue so loads of groups can sing together. I've been in mine since last Easter, and it is great fun. Our choir leader is brilliant. I like it.