Please can someone explain the appeal of drag? ***MNHQ TWEAKING TITLE TO POINT OUT STRICTLY SPOILER IN THE OP***

[CurlewKate]

Watching Celebrity Strictly last night, it was obviously set up for Tayce to win. Why? A group of celebrities of varying degrees of charm and bumble- then they are all soundly beaten by a clearly skilled dancer who's a drag queen.
There have been drag queens on Sewing Bee and Masterchef and House of Games. And loads of other shows I can't remember.
What's the appeal? And why no drag kings? Strictly has been great at featuring same sex couples- why not do more of that?

I would love it if we could discuss this in a way that doesn't get the thread deleted, so please post with care.

I've read about 260 posts so far...

This new Drag, pushed by the BBC and coming to every town near you soon, is being put in place to enable the mockery of women, so that it becomes normal and 'entertainment' to mock women. In Drag Queen Storytime it mocks women in front of and to their impressionable children. It also indoctrinates kids into thinking that men in dresses are all just lovely and sparkly, which helpfully disguses the preditors and sexual motives of men dressed up as women.
As someone said upthread "modern drag celebrates and reinforces gender stereotypes".
It's disgusting and has no place outside seedy clubs.

Oh and as for weasel Harry Styles... "He's not parodying women, he's stretching the boundaries and expressing himself. No parody there."
He ran out of ideas, of interesting or skilled things to do. He probably got paid a lot of money by the trans lobby to pose in a skirt. He is taking the liberty of 'stretching boundaries' that don't belong to him and the impact of which, won't affect him. He's colonising women's boundaries. Boundaries that are already under attack and need strengthening not weakening.

I don't think so. He was literally just a man in a dress - likely for marketing reasons.

As I've said repeatedly, I don't see it as them taking the piss out of me.
They're not me. They're themselves.

No.

Lol you lot must love that Smoggie Queens programme on BBC.

People who are trans or their allies paid him a lot of money to put a skirt on to what, promote trans ness?!
That doesn't sound deep in the conspiracy fields at all. 🙄
Just goes to show, it's not always about "it's just because men are saying they're women, and we just have concerns" for some at all.
Men like Harry wearing a skirt or dress and still being a man, never saying they're a woman,are still a "weasel" "coloniser."
It's just wearing a skirt, not a great big paid off conspiracy.

Sorry… not read the full thread ..hard hat on but what Tayce had was charisma. Their performance had pizazz and they have a professional performance x-factor but the dancing was clunky.

So for me, they should not have had won because Tasmin Outhwait was far superior in terms of lyricism, technique and performance quality - she was breathtaking and that was what was tragic for me about it. A shoe-in rather than on merit.

All of this could be achieved without parodying women. If we want to support authenticity and acceptance, why can everything that is liberating remain in place, but drop the bit that many women find belittling

This thread is asking what we find appealing about it. I was answering that. We all have things we like and dislike🤷‍♀️

How would a woman be treated were she to dress and act like a drag queen?

Why are you saying "they"? HE is a man. And it's "shoo in" not "shoe in".

The conversation around drag always reminds me of those people who insult you, say "only joking" and then call you an uptight bore if you get offended..

Drag IS a parody of women (no matter how many times this thread goes round in circles!) No woman I know acts or dresses in that way , and if we did we'd be ridiculed and it would be seen as unacceptable.

Just because gay men were once oppressed, doesn't give them the right to punch down.

I liked Lily Savage, Dame Edna, and Les Dawson and Roy Barraclough’s Cissy and Ada. The difference was, they were representing characters first and foremost, who just happened to be women so dressing up was required.

Danny La Rue never pretended to be a woman. He was a man in a dress, his pronouns were male, and just look at his name. His act was warm and funny and even respectful to women - the bits I saw, anyway. It might have been different live.

This current lot - pfft. The joke is on women. They’re taking the piss out of us. There’s one called Miss Carriage, ffs. They can get in the sea.

@Cherryana Tayce's pronouns are he/him when not working and she/her when in character. It's important to get these things right.

“They won’t let her into the girls changing room, she is outside in the corridor crying”.

“They won’t let him into the girls changing room, he is outside in the corridor crying”.

It’s important to get these things right indeed. Using correct sex pronouns is vital to safeguarding and using incorrect ones messes with our minds and is intended to get us to drop our guard.

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

Putting makeup on and wearing address doesn't turn you into a woman.
If I put a saddle on my back I don't turn into a horse.

I hold the opposite view. I think men wearing dresses whilst acknowledging they are still men doesn't undermine womanhood at all. It undermines the idea that womanhood is a costume you can put on and off.

Eddie Izzard saying 'that's not a woman's dress, it's my dress' was brilliant. Now he says he is a woman when he wears a dress.

TRAs have done a real number on woman by presenting a regressive argument as being progressive and making out that objections come from a conservative position. There a few posters on this board who are conservative about regressive stereotypes, but not many. Most of us who object want the material reality of being a woman to be unconstrained by regressive social norms.

Tayce's appearance on Strictly was nothing but lovely and showcased amazing talent. I have no idea why it would inspire this spiteful thread.

Why does he have to wear a dress to do it and pretend to be a woman?

Wow

Objecting to drag and finding it offensive = the rise of the far right.

As a woman, please do tell me what I can and can't get angry about and what words and phrases I am allowed to use to express that anger.

Oh wait ... that's already happening. And apparently I'm a virtual nazi

I agree @Brainworm .
When Eddie was Eddie a man wearing a dress, he was more authentic than he is now as 'Susie. Nicky Wire wears dresses on stage, he's still a man , no one bats an eyelid.
In the 80s men wore makeup and feminine clothes but they were still men. That to me was more groundbreaking than the drag queens of today.

It really was.
Saying fuck this shit to gender stereotypes is much better than saying if I don't exactly fit in box A I must belong in box B

Remember when those parents turned up to school board meetings dressed the same as the men the school had brought in to the school, and were immediately kicked out due to not dressing appropriately?

"Tayce's appearance on Strictly was nothing but lovely and showcased amazing talent. I have no idea why it would inspire this spiteful thread."

What is spiteful about this thread? There has been very little focus on Tayce as an individual and more discussion about the concept of drag.

I wonder if someone started a thread about a celebrity's cultural appropriation or an able-bodied actor being given the part of a wheelchair user in a film, claims would be made that the thread was spiteful.

I still remember Eddie Izzard saying "These aren't women's clothes-these are my clothes" Admirable.