The bloody naughty list. Aarrgh

[Goinggreymammy]

I didn't introduce the idea to my children. We don't have an elf that comes checking up on them in December. But 2 out of 3 of them are obsessed that they are on the naughty list and have been emotional wrecks the past few days. They havent been able tp enjoy these few days properly at all. Nothing I said could reassure them. I even promised this morning that if they got nothing from Santa I would take them shopping and get them whatever they wanted. I was so tempted to tell my 11yr old DD1 the night before last how it actually works but she is very innocent, and emotional, and I couldn't do it 2 days before Christmas. I know she would cope badly with that news.
Now, to be fair, DD1 has been answering back and flying off the handle a lot the last few months but they have had to deal with a lot of upheaval, moving around from house to house, staying with PIL, not having their stuff or any privacy, and she is pre-teen hormonal. I've explained all that to her but she still is convinced she's getting nothing. DS has autism and can be very disregulated and show very challenging behaviour at times, but overall coped better with all the change than I expected. So I understand why he thinks he is poorly behaved, but I've explained that on the whole he is much better than last year.
Why oh why do people make such a fuss about that bloody naughty list. Santa is a magical idea where you wake up Christmas morning and get surprise presents, not a scary behaviour modification gimmick.
Please tell me I'm not alone and I haven't damaged my children by not telling them the truth to save the stress.

You might tell as I am responding on Xmas eve, that I am going to be expressing an unpopular opinion here so I will apologise in advance but here it is. The whole thing is bullcrap, cringe and painful but of course I'm not going to be the one that breaks the 4th wall.

I'm a fan of keeping Santa talk to an absolute bare minimum...we do a few christmassy outings and a bit of whimsy the night before but no lead up talk, no Santa visits, it leads to much less questions.

Last year DS got anxious and upset about the naughty and nice list he's heard about in songs, TV etc and I could sense the build up and misbehaviour again this year so I told him a 'secret', that Santa knows children make mistakes and try hard as it's not easy being a child and growing up and learning, there isn't really a naughty/nice list.

I realise I'm not likely to win parent of the year for this and this is still another lie on top of a lie but I quite frankly don't care...I hate the anxiety and confusion this causes on their little souls, it's so unfair on them. After this, he seemed to completely relax about the whole thing and hasn't brought it up again, not even repeated it to his brother it's like he hasn't even given it another thought.

I love the look on their faces on Christmas day but the Santa bullcrap and all the expectations and emotional stuff around this month can absolutely go do one.

Sorry to hear that. Hope it blows over soon tomorrow! Makes me glad i didn't do any of it

My dad was an educational psychologist and he absolutely hated people peddling this idea that naughty children don't get presents. I remember often hearing him contradicting people who said so. And if anyone suggested to us when we were kids that we needed to be good for Santa, he'd argue with them and tell them we'd be getting presents anyway. He was quite right.

It is indeed a load of bollocks. Shops sell Santa Cams so you can pretend Santa is keeping an eye on your kids. But if they're the sort that believe in naughty and nice then maybe they should try being nice then they wouldnt get a sweat on about being naughty and empty handed.

“There is no naughty list. It is something some parents say to try and persuade their children to behave. Think about it: have you ever not had presents? You have always had presents. Can you think of someone who is sometimes naughty? Did they get presents? Yes. There you are. There is no naughty list”

You can say: even if you have been naughty, rude, nasty etc, if you are sorry Santa takes that into consideration. Are you sorry? Will you try to be nicer? (Kid will most likely answer yes if they are that upset). Then trust Santa. He knows.

Thanks all
I agree with you. I've said that they always get presents and that I don't believe in the naughty list myself.
@Kaleidoscopic101 yes, we dont do those Santa experience things either. I took them to a photo booth with Santa and said it was just people dressed up for a photo.... because it very obviously was. I am Catholic so our run up is more focused on Advent, carols, Jesus's etc than Santa stuff. But they still get the nice/naughty list stuff from school, friends, movies.

Thankfully they will wake up to lots of little surprises and one big thing they asked for in the morning.
Goodnight all.

I told mine all CCTV cameras were Santa cams, and I’d point them out wherever we were so they’d behave in public. Whether this will lead to them becoming law abiding citizens or elusive criminal masterminds, remains to be seen.

11 is too old to still be believing in Santa

I heard a family in the supermarket in October!!!! saying to their child that Santa was watching them and they'd better behave or no presents. If the only thing getting children to behave is the threat of no Christmas presents, and families aren't parenting and encouraging appropriate behaviour in other ways, well no wonder society is in a mess.

@Kaleidoscopic101 You've inspired me to do this next year. My 4 year old daughter has brought up the naughty and nice list pretty much every day this month. Constantly asking if she's going to be on the naughty list because of xyz.

I actually feel awful about it because to start with I did use it when she was being a normal 4 year old and misbehaving and actually I've found it's had the opposite effect and her behaviour's been worse. I actually think she's become anxious about it because she's been way more emotional than usual, like loads of crying if I talk to her in a firm voice, which isn't like her. It all feels a bit wrong.

I'll still do the whole Santa thing but definitely dumping the naughty list crap!

At 11 if she's that worried she's on the naughty list I suspect that's because she knows she has done something wrong. I'd prioritize getting to the bottom of that and making sure she can tell you about what ever that is.

I’ve told mine it’s a lie adults tell to children to make sure they behave well all the time but there is no such thing as naughty children so all get gifts from Santa.

Honestly, if an 11yo is worried about "the naughty list" to the point of tears and not sleeping, I'd be thinking that she's done something she knows she shouldn't have done.

@biscuitsandbooks Thanks. As I said, the "naughty stuff" she has done is she has been having lots of emotional outbursts and getting angry with me, her siblings, and her dad this past few months, and being rude and saying unkind things during these outbursts. But I have had lots of chats with her and I honestly think it is a combination of pre-teen hormones and dealing with a stressful living situation, moving from house to house, not having any privacy or being able to have her own things in her own space, etc. We have finally moved back home and I'm hoping to see an improvement.

@Goinggreymammy that sounds tough - but I guess what I'm trying to say is that at 11, she's too old to be this upset about being on a naughty list for Father Christmas.

Yes.

11 is too old for you to be affirming / supporting a belief in Father Christmas.

Going through the tradition is enough. Playing, acting ‘as if’ FC is coming is fine.

Continued insistence or supporting in something so illogical is not helpful, and will expose them to ridicule. The last thing an anxious child needs.

@ClicketyClickPlusOne I haven't actively supported it. We didn't visit any Santa's (I got them to stand in a.photo booth but made it clear it wasn't Santa, she has 2 younger siblings), I told her that there was no naughty list and that she didn't need to worry about Santa as I would make sure she had presents. She didn't get the hint. What else could I do the day before Christmas eve?
Lots of posters saying she is too old. She has just turned 11 and is quite innocent. All of her friends that I've spoken to their mothers believe too. We are in Ireland, perhaps children believe for longer here as they don't move up to second level school until 12/13, after 6th class. My DD is only in 5th still. I will tell her very bluntly in the summer, when Christmas is still far away.