Is there any reason connected to death why someone needs to be in Zimbabwe on a specific date?

[MinnieMountain]

Asking for a friend.

Her colleague booked a/l for a wedding in her home country of Zimbabwe. She’s now extended it, saying she has to be in the country on a specific date in December for something connected with the deaths of her DM and DB a few months ago.

Is there any actual thing that anyone can think of that would require this? She’s now the head of her family.

Friend asked me if I might know as I’m a solicitor. She and her other colleagues are annoyed as they’re ICU nurses and other colleague is being vague, so they can’t tell if it’s a genuine reason or not.

Your friend should be annoyed at the lack of planning/contingency related to staffing capacity in dealing with impromptu issues such as this - people call in sick during busy period in the healthcare profession all the time. I sincerely hope that the annoyance will not be directed at said staff when she comes back - she is entitled to her paid AND unpaid leave to deal with personal issues.

Please do not hold her to a different standard just because she is from another country - she is not enslaved to her role.

I can think of 100s of reasons from winding-up the estate to being required at an inquest.

Could be legal, could be ceremonial?

I'm guessing the thought is she always intended to take longer perhaps? The reality is that it's very expensive to travel there and she's had two bereavements, she probably has several things she's expected to go knowing it will be a year or longer before she can get back again

Funeral or memorial type event. Dealing with probate or other family matters.

Our local church holds a memorial every year to remember everyone who died in the parish - it’s important to family and friends of the deceased and has a huge turnout.

Could be an appointment with a lawyer, court hearing, all sorts of things.
But your friend shouldn't be speculating and it's appalling that you're interested enough in this third hand gossip to post on MN about it.

There’s lots as others have pointed out from legal to cerinonial like kurova guva if she partakes in that. Really as others have said regardless of how busy the workplace is this is this needs to be a convo between the line manager and her, she might be being vague with colleagues because she doesn’t want stuff in the rumour mill

How is it not their business when they'll be under significant pressure to cancel their Christmas plans to cover her essential shifts on ITU?

It's not their business to know why a colleague is off. Her manager either approves it or doesn't. It's her manager's job to arrange cover.

What do they think should happen? Should they have to approve leave? Should people have to tell all their colleagues about things like pregnancy loss, mental health issues, family problems, cancer diagnoses and let them decide if that's a good enough reason to be off?

If these people really think they have the right to know and judge, there's a danger this could develop into bullying.

Are these colleagues aware that time off work is a legal right whether it suits them or not?

I hate this busy body type of shit! Nobody's business other than the person involved and her manager.

As outlined in my post, the annoyance should be directed at the management, not individuals. It is not their business as it is personal, said staff is under no obligation to disclose intimate issues that has nothing to do with the rest of the team. If the team is experiencing intense pressure to the effect of leave cancellation, that's up to the management to resolve this staffing situation and the team should take it up with the management, not said staff who just had a bereavement in the family.

Again we should be mindful of holding staff members to a different standard just because she is from another country. Will you be asking the same question if a different person who is from this country is having to take an extended break due to whatever personal reasons? No we don't. The team will be asking who is going to cover their workload and the manager should reallocate workload or get agency staff based on priority and urgency. There should be a contingency plan.

@MinnieMountain why are you getting involved in, and even fuelling, this high school drama? If this gossiping comes out I hope "your friend" and all the other malicious gossips are pulled before HR.

Why on earth would you expect a solicitor to know about any individual's responsibilities after a major bereavement (whether in Zimbabwe or not). Do they think you're a private investigator or that they have some sort of legal claim here? This is outrageous behaviour. Would you not tell them it was none of your business (or theirs)?

It's as if the colleague isn't a bereaved human being but just convenient back up staff from Zimbabwe.

When we had a colleague stranded in Myanmar by a coup, with threat to her life and that of her, she kept us up to date. When a colleague stayed in Sri Lanka to run an emergency health centre after the tsunami, she kept us up to date. When a colleague was stranded in Malaysia after their flight home after a funeral was cancelled, he kept us up to date. When I got stranded in a remote location of the British Isles, after going to see my sick parent, I kept the team up to date. It's what usually happens in a close knit NHS team. And is really good for stopping members of small teams feeling utterly shafted when they have no choice but to cover, as the alternative is leaving patients to die.

That's her choice to inform the team. She is not obligated to inform anyone but her manager.

If something personal happened to you (for example a breakdown following discovery of an affair, parents illness etc) which entails a long extended absence, would you inform the team in detail?

Thinking some of the health things I have told them about, probably.

Again that's your choice - I wouldn't and I will never encourage sharing of personal information as a way to bond the team. Some people might find it an invasion of their rights to privacy and is a slippery slope to exclusion then bullying when people start 'withholding information'. The onus shouldn't be on the individual- we're entitled to have time away from work for self care without having to explain ourselves except to the manager.

@MinnieMountain

To answer your question - yes there is something like this poster has detailed.

As she is now Head of the Family as per your post this is an added burden of responsibility.

She'll do this and come back. Not unusual at all and I am sure she is stressing enough about not being back at work.

Also a long way to go and therefore needs to sort as going back again will not be an easily available option.

Hope that helps clarify for you and her work colleague.

If there are legal responsibilities or ramifications that the family is having to deal with, the sensible thing is to make appointments while she's over there. Maybe they couldn't get an appointment in time for her planned return, and that's why she needs to stay?

I'm going through this here in the UK, and my presence has been needed often enough that I daren't go abroad on holiday. So there's probably any number of reasons that are keeping her there. Jeeze, I can't even imagine dealing with my mother's estate etc if I lived abroad, as she does.

But what everyone else said. It's no-one's business but her manager's and this is most unprofessional of your friend (and presumably the manager if the rest of the team have been told about this).
You should have nothing to do with it.

Maybe this isn't a close knit team though? It's nice that yours is but not everyone is that lucky.

Even if they are close, it's not this person's job to act like you and your colleagues. All of the people you mentioned had a choice. They have a choice too.

Goodness you must work in a small ICU. Mine has hundreds of nurses, it’s impossible to keep up to date on what any one person is doing like that.

I stopped getting worked up about the reason why I was asked to cover more than a decade ago. You can drive yourself mad speculating about whether or not someone’s leave is ‘real’ or you can give your colleagues the trust and respect of assuming they have a good reason and get on with covering a unit that is always, always short staffed and in which the staffing issues are not the fault of any one individual but the fault of a system under major stress.