Babies and dogs left outside shops?

[AuntieMillicent]

Today at about 15:00 I saw a toddler in a pushchair outside a shop while I drove past.

No adults around. Northern town. The shop was small and all glass fronted, in fairness, but really?

At about 1630 I came out of the post office and there was a lovely 'labradoodle' (I think!) Dog outside tied up. I assume owned by someone who was also in the post office. I petted the dog for a few minutes but nobody came out, he was a lovely friendly thing. Vulnerable to going off with anyone I'd have thought.

Surely at best someone could have stolen him to sell, at worst to do something awful with.

I thought this sort of thing was a 'no no' nowadays?!

Obviously the toddler would be something more so frowned upon but I don't think either are okay, are they?

I was driving and in traffic when I saw the child.

It was completely normal in the 1970s to leave children in prams and pushchairs outside shops. I remember sitting on the step with my brothers waiting for my DM to come back.

I do think we are very alarmist about leaving children outside and keeping them wrapped in cotton wool.

If understand a dog being left outside - nuts if a child is! If they get a fright and you’re in a queue/ a dog comes over, a stranger decides to go over etc- so many things can happen that are outside the norm but the point of minding a child is you actually be ready for all eventualities!

Presumably both times you stopped and watched to make sure both were safe?

Wouldn't leave my toddler outside any shop, but regularly leave my dog outside the butchers/a small shop where I can still keep an eye on him.

I'm a big fan of killing two birds with one stone, so if I can turn an errand in to a dog walk then it's win win.

I often see dogs left outside shops and they have been fine. I haven't seen a baby left outside a shop for many years and I would never leave a baby alone outside a shop

We would leave our dogs tied up outside shops in the 70s and 80s with no concern about them being stolen. No way would I do that now, too risky

Totally normal to tie dogs up outside, many shops have tie up points. Children however are not left outside these days, used to be normal 50 years ago

I am usa and not a dog owner but it is illegal to leave a child unattended in a car or outside a store This happened in my community and made local news If a child is witnessed unattended in a car passerbys will call the police and the police will come quickly. im not sure how “illegal” but i do know if you come out and leave in your car with the child those very same passerbys will still report you and you will be home visited by the police Yes at one time children were left while you filled your petrol tank and paid inside or went into a store briefly but todays parenting culture is its absolutely unsafe to leave your child unattended

It was.
It isn't now though!

My Mum still reiterates a tale about leaving one of us outside a shop in the 70s, in pushchair with dog tied to pushchair. Dog saw a cat or something and bombed off, pushchair folded up with child inside it and hurtled off down the street....

As I said before, impossible in the first scenario unless I was going to cause a humongous traffic jam. I wish Ihad have stopped until the owner came out, with the dog. My own dog was in the car but I could've and should've spared a few moments.

All the people saying “children aren’t left outside shops any more”- that’s mostly because in days gone by shops had a counter and a person serving and were small. Shops now are self-service and large so the parent would be otherwise occupied and the child would be out of sight/easy reach. It sounds like the parent in this scenario was able to see the child through the window while inside. Can’t get worked up about it.

Nowadays I wouldn’t do either but when I was still in a pram 40 years ago it was apparently quite normal for babies to be left in a pram outside a shop. Similarly dogs being left tied up while their owner shopped.
I can’t remember the last time I saw a baby left alone in a pushchair outside a shop but in my small local town centre dogs are a more common occurrence

We leave babies outside shops and cafés where I live, if they're asleep especially because nobody wants to disturb a baby's nap. We put them out in their prams to nap at home as well, on the balcony or in the back garden.

I probably wouldn't leave a baby outside a shop in the UK though, more because of what people would think rather than because I think it's particularly dangerous if you can still see them through the window.

Would definitely still put them out to nap - they sleep much longer outside ime!

There was no where you could have stopped and driven back? No where you could have stopped and walked back?

Try James Bulger.

My mum once left our dog outside a shop and went home 🙄
A friend of mine left the baby outside school! They did ring him to collect

Nowhere to stop until I would've been quite far away. Busy town centre, one way system, very limited parking (and you can't park on that road at all).

Anyone else idly wondering, if it were their pooch, how long it would take the dog thieves to realise they've made a terrible mistake and beg you to take the fecker back 😁

If someone tried to steal mine I reckon she'd probably bite them. Which is another good reason for my not leaving her outside a shop!

Opportunistic abductions of infants from shops or outside buildings are rare but not unheard of. I was trying to find two cases I vaguely remembered (in one, an older sibling in a shopping centre was tricked into handing over their sibling's pushchair while their mum was in the toilet - the abductor told the older child that their mum wanted them to go up the escalator but that they'd stay and watch the baby for them; in the other, a woman on Merseyside tried to phone James Bulger's mum soon after he'd been taken to reassure her that it would be ok because her child had been abducted in an earlier decade and found unharmed) but I couldn't find either on the Internet, perhaps because they both eventually resulted in safely-located babies. But while failing to find those I found plenty of others:

The toddler abducted from Primark in Newcastle.

An attempted abduction of a baby from a Belfast shopping centre last year.

An attempted abduction from TK Maxx in Bromley.

Sandy Davidson in Irvine - taken from outside his house and presumed killed.

Jamie Campbell in Drumchapel, taken from outside his house and murdered.

Baby Kimberley, taken in her pram from outside her house and drowned in a puddle in North East England.

Baby Karen Lightfoot on Merseyside taken from outside a shop - found safe.

I wouldn't leave a baby or toddler outside a shop even for a minute. The risk of abduction is tiny but why take the chance?

This is very true. Someone once tied a dog to the bike hoops outside the supermarket, right next to my children's bikes. Obviously children's bikes, like 20" and 16".

It was not a friendly dog. Tense and raised hackles. No way for my kids to unlock their bikes without going near the dog. Luckily I was there too but how thoughtless!

It's this. Even a 0.01% chance is...what? OK?

I used to work with a colleague who used to throw his babies high up into the air. It was vomit inducing watching him as he used to do it whilst standing on stone steps.

I asked him what chance percentage he thought was acceptable of him missing them and causing them a permanent and life changing injury and he said 10%.

As it goes, the kids ended up on the 'at risk' register because of this sort of thing and one of them has lost the forth and fifth digits on one hand and a permanently dislocating elbow as a result of his misjudged and appalling 'parenting'

I'd leave a dog outside I definitely wouldn't leave a baby outside

I've never seen a child in a pram left outside a shop, but a dog tied up outside one is still a fairly ordinary occurrence I would say.

That's just so irresponsible. My dog is the friendliest thing if she likes you, but outside a shop she'd be nervous as hell as she doesn't like being away from me, and anyone who approached her wouldn't be met nicely. She'd be so nervous. But that's just one reason I won't do it! If anything happened to her I'd be so so devastated.

The dog I mentioned in the OP was a large lollopy friendly thing, I could've easily walked off with him. I don't know, I just don't think it's the right thing to do.