Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

When did marrying a cousin become socially unacceptable?

479 replies

LionBird · 07/12/2024 08:12

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
DecayingRelic · 07/12/2024 10:21

It might not be legally incest but morally it is and should be illegal, we need to follow genetics and not some man made rule

Nolegusta · 07/12/2024 10:21

x2boys · 07/12/2024 10:16

I didn't say it never causes problems ,I said it probably won't do you understand what probably means?
I'm not advocating cousin marriage I think it's pretty grim but it is legal.

You can't say it probably won't, because that's false information. Do you understand what probably means?
All we can say is that there is an increased risk of defects, and that while there is probability there is also an element of randomness in genetics. Clearly, parental/foetal screening could reveal more but many folk won't do that.

EmmaMaria · 07/12/2024 10:21

It used to be against church law - in other words you could not marry a close cousin (or without a dispensation from the church) in church; and even when this fell out of favour the cultural significance continued in the general population. Large parts of Scotland still frown on it. My friend married her cousin in the 1980's and it took her Scottish father many years to come around to the marriage he was so set against a cousin marriage.

Lightswitchup · 07/12/2024 10:21

My ex cheated on me with his first cousin. People I told about this were mainly quite repulsed by it. I know he didn’t tell his friends exactly who he’d been caught with because he was ashamed.

uptheculdesac · 07/12/2024 10:22

@Nolegusta

A one off cousin pairing can and does cause defects. It's wrong to say it probably won't.
You are wrong. It is totally correct to say it probably won't.
Non related patents =2-3% likelihood of issues. First cousins =4-6% likelihood.
That's still a 96-98% likelihood of a healthy child.

WeArentInKansas · 07/12/2024 10:23

@LaPalmaLlama

I think people have realised it’s not the best idea due to the risk of birth defects caused by not diversifying the gene pool enough

I've often wondered about this. When I was at school the Hapsburg jaw was always referred to in history lessons as an illustration of the effects of inbreeding
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/distinctive-habsburg-jaw-was-likely-result-royal-familys-inbreeding-180973688/

But what if the cousins were genetically great. Say like Usain Bolt had a female Usain Bolt cousin would they have a bolt of genetically ultra speedy lightening as a child?

I get if you are doing it again and again, but once? what if the starting material was awesome? Wouldn't awesome x awesome = ultra-awesome?

A portrait (by Juan Carreño de Miranda) of Charles II, the last of the Spanish Habsburg kings, and his father, Philip IV (painted by Diego Velázquez, of whom the king was a patron). Both men had prominent jaws, which a new study concludes is most likel...

The Distinctive ‘Habsburg Jaw’ Was Likely the Result of the Royal Family’s Inbreeding

New research finds correlation between how inbred rulers of a notoriously intermarrying dynasty were and the prominence of their jutting jaw

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/distinctive-habsburg-jaw-was-likely-result-royal-familys-inbreeding-180973688

Nolegusta · 07/12/2024 10:23

uptheculdesac · 07/12/2024 10:22

@Nolegusta

A one off cousin pairing can and does cause defects. It's wrong to say it probably won't.
You are wrong. It is totally correct to say it probably won't.
Non related patents =2-3% likelihood of issues. First cousins =4-6% likelihood.
That's still a 96-98% likelihood of a healthy child.

No, it is not totally correct. Already explained above.

x2boys · 07/12/2024 10:23

peekaboopumpkin · 07/12/2024 10:15

Wouldn't you realise at some point that you had the same great grandparents. Most people talk about their family?

In Iceland they have an app that people use to check if they're related before they date.

Well I talk about my grandparents ,and aunties and uncles and first cousin,s but I have quite a large extended family on both sides my Dad is one of six siblings and my mum has two brothers all have children
They never kept in touch with their own cousins though.

Alondra · 07/12/2024 10:24

DNA is sufficiently different between cousins to make it legal today. Otherwise, it'd have been banned. From Wikipedia the chance of autosomal recessive disorders is between 4-6% in first cousins against 3% in unrelated parents.

The social aspect is different. If a person has grown up with a cousin as brother/sister, families and friends are hugely less likely to accept the relationship than if they met as adults.

Miley1967 · 07/12/2024 10:26

I live in an area where it is rife amongst some communities and as a result there are a high number of kids born with awful conditions. I recently worked with a guy who was married to his cousins,and they shared the same grandparents. I ofund it quite shocking in this day and age but then my great grandparents were cousins.

oneeggisunoeuf · 07/12/2024 10:26

It has been widely known for generations.
When I was a student I worked on summer playschemes for disabled children in Bradford, back in the early 80s. There was a high proportion of children from an Asian background, and one family whose child we picked up had eleven children, nine of whom had severe disabilities.

NamechangeRugby · 07/12/2024 10:28

The genetic side of this debate does make you wonder about the repercussions in those communities where (I think more than one has been discovered) a fertility doctor used their own sperm over and over again for decades resulting in hundreds of half siblings, who had no idea they were related in any way.

Imbusytodaysorry · 07/12/2024 10:28

Chucklesisters · 07/12/2024 08:21

I have Indian heritage and recently discovered it’s super predominant and popular in the southern parts to marry first cousins and uncles! They have this weird concept of cross-cousins where the children of opposite gender siblings can marry each other. And uncle-niece weddings were so acceptable and encouraged (less common nowadays only due to widening age gaps) that the local term for FIL and MIL is uncle/aunt (many Indian languages have specific terms for mum’s brother etc)!

Uncle and Niece . Just so wrong

NameChange1936 · 07/12/2024 10:28

Nolegusta · 07/12/2024 10:12

Are you trying to justify 1st cousin marriage?

There's nothing to justify. It's legal, even if it's distasteful in some cultures. I was just pointing out that people who are against it on the grounds of a perceived risk to the baby should also by that logic have the same reticence towards older mothers. The fact that they generally don't suggests that their discomfort has more to do with cultural norms than with clinical risk. Which is fine. But if that's how you feel then own that.

TwigletsAndRadishes · 07/12/2024 10:29

I knew two sisters who married their first cousins, two brothers. This was in the 80s and they were white British, not Muslim or Arab or from any other culture where this would be encouraged or considered normal. As far as i know there were no particular hereditary conditions in the family, and they each had three healthy children. Imagine their had been an inherited condition, autism or cystic fibrosis for example, and any of their children had married one another, and any of their children had done the same. This is how birth defects from inbreeding happens. It's how pedigree dogs end up with heart defects or breathing problems. It's how King Charles of Spain ended up with epilepsy, lifelong impotence, low IQ and facial disfigurement ('It was noted that he “swallows all he eats whole, for his nether jaw stands so much out, that his two rows of teeth cannot meet.”)

It has always happened to a small degree, in remote communities where large families were common before birth control was readily available. These days it's generally only in certain Muslim cultures were it's considered a requirement or an expectation, to keep money within the same clan. It's rife in the Arab gulf states.

It's not considered taboo in most societies because in general there is no hugely increased risk to the offspring of consanguineous relationships, so long as it doesn't happen generation upon generation within the same extended family. We recognise that the occasional love marriage that just happens to be between first cousins is not a particular risk to their children, and only becomes so when it's a regular and repeated practice and/or their are known genetic conditions present in both the mother and the father's families.

However, in communities where first cousin marriage does happen down the generations, you end up with a very small gene pool and all the associated problems that go along with that. Genetic anomalies, inherited syndromes, birth defects, life limiting conditions causing LDs, autism, epilepsy, profound physical and mental disabilities, heart defects etc passed on at a greatly increased rate than in babies born of non-familial relationships. Studies of the British Pakistani community where over 50% of marriages have been consanguineous for multiple generations show that the children born in those communities are massively disproportionately more likely to suffer from inherited syndromes, disabilities and birth defects than babies born to non-related parents in the UK in general.

There are other minority communities where this is evident too. In the Irish Traveller community there are disproportionately high incidences of Hurler Syndrome for example, among others. They don't marry their first cousins as a cultural expectation, but as a community where few people 'marry out' and where large families are common, it's easy to end up vaguely related to your spouse.

Any fairly insular minority community is going to experience this to an extent, even if they don't expressly encourage the marriage of first cousins, because the gene pool will be limited compared to the rest of the population in general. But add a culture of first cousin marriage into the mix and it will obviously hugely compound the problem.

Incidences of Sickle Cell Disease are much higher among people of African Caribbean heritage. If both parents have the gene, there's a 1 in 4 chance of each child they have being born with sickle cell disease. The child's parents often will not have sickle cell disease themselves and they're only carriers of the sickle cell trait. As a rule, people of AC heritage do not marry their cousins, but if they did, as a common cultural practice or expectation in the way that many Muslim communities do, you can only imagine how much that would make the prevalence of SSD.

It costs the NHS (by which I mean the taxpayer) an unbelievable amount of money every year to support the poor victims of this highly questionable cultural practice. It makes me furious because it's nothing more than outdated feudal, tribal nonsense that is all keeping control of money, land and assets within one family/clan. It's completely unnecessary and avoidable and these poor kids who suffer the consequences are just collateral damage.

Gonners · 07/12/2024 10:29

Two of my first cousins married - their mothers were two of my mother's umpteen sisters. There was much tutting as he was quite a lot older and exceptionally wet, but she had been obsessed with him since she was about 12. They didn't have any children and last I heard of her, about 10 years ago, she was bravely/insanely setting out on Marriage #3 in her mid-50s. Her mum said she hoped this was the last time, but she wouldn't bet on it!

Sewannoying · 07/12/2024 10:29

peekaboopumpkin · 07/12/2024 10:15

Wouldn't you realise at some point that you had the same great grandparents. Most people talk about their family?

In Iceland they have an app that people use to check if they're related before they date.

I don’t know the names of my great grandparents. I only vaguely know the first names of my grandparents’ siblings and I only met one or two of them as a small child. So people could mention people I’m related to and I would have no idea.

I have a lot of cousins, most of whom I haven’t seen since I was a child/teenager (and they would have been a child/teenager). I also have lots of first cousins once or twice removed that I’ve never met and I’m not even sure of the number.

XxSideshowAuntSallyx · 07/12/2024 10:29

peekaboopumpkin · 07/12/2024 10:15

Wouldn't you realise at some point that you had the same great grandparents. Most people talk about their family?

In Iceland they have an app that people use to check if they're related before they date.

Great another thing we'll have to do when dating. If finding a date wasn't hard enough😂

saraclara · 07/12/2024 10:29

I'm sorry if this has already been said, but marrying a first cousin where there have been no other consanguineous relationships previously, is not particularly risky genetically. The real problems are in cultures where people have intermarried through previous generations. If you married your cousin, and your parents were also cousins, the risk is much higher. And if your grandparents were also cousins, then things get really problematic.

I taught in a special school in an area where multi-generational consanguinous marriage was fairly common. It was tragic to come across several siblings all suffering from the same disability, sometimes very life-limiting ones.

But as far as being the first in the family to marry a cousin, goes, the risk of issues is low.

ETA Ah, I see that @TwigletsAndRadishes has covered this much more comprehensively and articulately.

Ttcagainnow · 07/12/2024 10:30

The thought of my brother and I being a grandparent to the same child is just weird. Our children are blood related. It's incestuous.

Supersimkin7 · 07/12/2024 10:31

The morality of knowingly producing a DC - or several - with lifelong disabilities is interesting.

Abortion fixes it, as does saying It’s the Will
of God.

Neither answer seems ideal for the child.

thewrongsister · 07/12/2024 10:32

AInightingale · 07/12/2024 09:52

You need to Google the stats on congenital disorders in children in areas where there are large populations that practice cousin marriages. Apart from it being an absolute tragedy for the children born, it's costing the health and social care services a fortune so I can understand why so many people are against it.

It's not only the costs. It increases waiting times for help for those who were simply unlucky to be unwell or disabled. Instead of the rarity they should be and the help they should be able to easily access, they're on waiting lists with tons of others - others who only exist in the first place because their parents decided to marry their own relatives.

Trendyname · 07/12/2024 10:32

LionBird · 07/12/2024 08:12

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

There are a lot of things acceptable ( including very young girls married to older men, racism) back then but not today because we have become more thoughtful.

StamppotAndGravy · 07/12/2024 10:33

The cousins in the Forsyte Saga married but chose not to have children because they knew the risks. That's turn of the century. So I'm not sure it was ever 100% socially acceptable, although that book also addresses marital rape. I'm not sure if it was saying the quiet part out loud of what society actually thought or was ahead of its time.

Yellowbananasarebetterthangreen · 07/12/2024 10:34

SoNiceToComeHomeTo · 07/12/2024 08:14

It is legal to marry a cousin and I think it always has been. Maybe you know people who think it’s wrong- who are they?

I was born mid 70s. Ive always "known" that marrying a cousin, especially a first cousin is socially unacceptable - especially for the health of any future children.

Swipe left for the next trending thread