When did marrying a cousin become socially unacceptable?

[LionBird]

I'm a big Agatha Christie fan and noticed there are quite a few references to cousins being in a relationship. I'm rereading Taken at the Flood currently, which is set in 1946, and the main character is engaged to her cousin and nobody seems to think it's strange! Obviously it was quite common in royal circles too in the 19th century but post-WW2 isn't that long ago so I'm not sure how and when it became unacceptable to have a relationship with a cousin - can anyone shed some light on this?

This sonething i've always wondered too, from reading Agatha Christie. I was brought up Catholic and marrying first cousins is not permitted, so i thought it was a particularly upper middle-class Church of England thing.

There's first cousin marriage in a few of her books/short stories, the only thing I can think of is that it's shorthand for the chap being the 'right sort'.

There's so much awful classism and sexism in her books but i still love them!

ODFOD

Honestly, that is not how your post came across.

Absolutely, if a poster was advising a friend or relative whether or not to have a child with a first cousin, the language “it will probably be alright” wouldn’t be helpful.

However, i think the post in question was more about the actual stats across a population, in which case using the word “probably” when talking about how probable something was is quite reasonable.

I shared my anecdote precisely because it was unusual- unusual for our age group and culture (middle aged, middle class, white British) which I thought made it interesting. I did not accompany it with any value judgements at all, others may have chosen to draw their own inferences.

Not sure how else my post would come across tbh.

Maybe re-read it.

It's still normal in some circles and cultures. And it's not illegal in British law.

Personally I find the thought creepy - your parent is the sibling of their parent, and cousins can look very similar to each other. I have found some third cousins marrying in my family tree which is still close imo, but if you go out further you may not even know you are related.

I think marrying first cousins has been socially unacceptable for some time. I remember my mother saying a distant relative's child had problems because his parents were first cousins and it wasn't something anyone should do. I think they got married in the 1940s.

I phrased it badly ;-)
I meant some sort of official public health organization of course, not the Catholic church!

As I said, I'm not sure why anyone would think otherwise. Maybe it's your interpretation.
Anyway, moving on.

There's a case of cousins marrying in my white upper middle class family just after the war. Two of the four children they had were disabled as a result and they felt terribly guilty.

The programme focused on the Asian community, there was a couple who had 4 kids and there were all severely disabled and non verbal. I couldn't believe that they hadn't stop to think it was a bad idea after the second child!

I've read about the issue. 'It's the will of God' is said to be a common view. People who think that are probably unlikely to be open to genetic testing.

I'd like to see some research into whether cousin marriage is still common among those who were born and educated (in the uk state education system) in the uk, and what proportion of the population of places such as Bradford is first gen immigrants, and how or if that is changing over time. That might indicate whether the problem is likely to resolve itse!f over time.

Also, are there high levels of disability in the communities in Pakistan where cousin marriage is common ?

If you’re talking about first cousins this is still widely practiced across the world, particularly in some cultures. It’s common I the UK between Asian families given that it’s the practice of keeping everything within the family, wealth, values etc. but there is a problem with congenital defects as a result.

It’s a question you will be asked at your booking appointment when pregnant here in the UK, whether you are related (genetically) to the father of your child.

Just so we’re clear this isn’t necessarily a Muslim thing, it’s permissible Islamically (like it is in the UK) this practice or preference to marry a cousin tends to be within a specific community within the Pakistani community. Unfortunately, sadly birth defects and certain genetic conditions are statistically far more common in this community compared to any others and it’s down the level of consanguinity.

my husband’s from this community, the rationale is land back home, the perception that when your son gets married (particularly the youngest) he stays at home, and his wife moves in and takes care of his parents.

Yes, very much so!

At that point in our history people married relatives in order not to dilute the family wealth/power. It was common amongst royalty for centuries. Presumably they thought the resulting birth defects were curses.

Then genetic medicine came along and explained why it was a bad idea, and it becomes socially unacceptable. Some cultures still do it. There's a higher rate of birth defects amongst them.

I get what you’re saying and I understood her viewpoint. She’s now the carer for her brother since their parents both died.

Not just mine, dear.

Anyway, moving on.

Anyway, it's not about who marries who, but who has children with who. First cousins in their sixties getting married - no problem. Gay first cousins getting married - no problem. Young man and young woman who are the result of several generations of cousin marriage in a relationship and having children - problem, but what can you do about it?

I'd start by making first cousin marriage/sex illegal. That's the first step towards making it socially unacceptable. You'd have to turn a blind eye to those already in relationship with cousin and not prosecute anyone grassed by their enemies, but if the purpose of the law is about the children that's doable, disabled children become the evidence. So if you've married your cousin, no more children for you after the law is passed unless you adopt. There'd be those that risk pregnancy and get away with it, without a disabled child nobody would know because the parents being cousins wouldn't come to the authorities attention. So those would slip through the net.

If marriage to cousin is illegal, you could test immigration applicants and decline married cousins. That would cut down numbers a bit and send the message that UK doesn't want cousin sex/marriage here. Those with genetically disabled children and where parents are cousins, even if not married, the children are the evidence it's a romantic relationship so the parents can't claim they're just cousins, immigration denied. This is due to the potential additional costs to the country of NHS and social care for these children. We have to protect the people already here who don't have enough resources as it is.

If public funds and prison space allowed, I'd start testing the parents of genetically disabled children when those children are diagnosed, to see if the parents are cousins. Then prosecute them twofold if they are, first for breaking the no sex/marriage to your cousin law and second for child cruelty. Because the child probably wouldn't be disabled if the parents had procreated with someone else, so the parents have chosen to deliberately risk causing harm to their child by inbreeding. If the disabled child's parents aren't cousins then it's just bad luck so no prosecution.

A couple generations of this disapproval and consequences and the practice of cousin marriage would soon die out.

I don’t think it should be allowed. Obviously some people will go ahead and have children with cousins anyway but I think official ceremonies and marriages between cousins should not be permitted . It is a harmful practice and sometimes associated with cultures where very young women have little choice over a partner . In my opinion It’s way of maintaining control of family money and keeping control of the next generation - particularly women.
Matthew Syed’s article is interesting and I think he’s right.

I agree to some extent… but you might be prosecuting the wrong people. The “mother” could be vulnerable and have very little agency

I was going to say something like this. I am not usually in favour of banning things I disapprove of but I understand that making cousin marriage illegal would reduce the number of young girls taken abroad to get married - because in many cases the marriage wouldn’t be recognised so no chance of bringing the cousin / new spouse to the UK.

Realistically, the most straightforward way to do it would be to say that from {date} cousin marriages are illegal. Then current marriages stay but no new ones.

😒

I agree to some extent… but you might be prosecuting the wrong people. The “mother” could be vulnerable and have very little agency

Then I guess she'd have to prove it by reporting her family for forced marriage which is illegal. Then she's officially a victim of crime and doesn't get prosecuted. Same as if domestic abuse victims want to keep their children they have to be willing to end their relationship with the abuser and admit he is one by reporting him (or whatever the process is that convinces social worker to believe them). People can't have their cake and eat it too.

God it’s a hard road though, isn’t it? Having your own family (who you love) prosecuted. Being shunned by the entire community. Possibly losing your children.