We should treasure our nhs here’s why

[Workingclasslass]

As people know there was a CEO of a health insurance company in America that has just been shot and killed.
Anyway I happen to be watching YouTube. I am British and one of the bullets had written on it deny did you know that this particular health insurance has the biggest record for denying claims?
That’s right, people can’t get money for being ill and that medical bankruptcy is a major thing in America right now
I will note that there was no flowers or anything like that put after he got killed. I get the impression that for a lot of Americans they can see this thing coming to happen to these people because they really are adapt at not paying out when they should.
So my point is, yes the NHS needs a lot of work it’s not perfect but I’m telling you now as somebody that has been in hospital a hell of a lot if I was in America I think I would be totally screwed with how much it would cost me.
what are your thoughts?

As an American I will say this: we don't know the motivation of the killer. It was a professional hit, which is hella expensive. How many families in the US that could afford a hitman couldn't afford medical care? Very few.

I think it is more likely the words etched on the bullets are a red herring and the motive is something entirely different.

As for health care, the US has a system very much like the NHS--it's the military medical system, which is "free" at the point of service for military members. It is terrible. Not fit for purpose. As a military officer I suffered decades with misdiagnoses, delayed care, denied care, incompetent care, smelly, dirty hospitals, you name it. Absolutely horrible.

Then I retired and got private health insurance. Now I can be seen within a few hours by a competent professional in a clean setting. A few weeks' wait for a specialist instead of months or years. Hospitals that look like hotels. I will never stop singing the praises of the private US system. I've experienced both sides, and there is no comparison.

That's both awful re the NHS and great that AXA provided the service that you needed @Petergriffinschins.

One of the issues is with a lot of private healthcare is that they don't provide cover for life limiting illnesses. My DH would die without the NHS, it's a simple as that.

We need to have honest conversations about the NHS without either treating them as untouchables where we should all be grateful for only having to wait 10 hours in a and e or as the most appalling organisation ever.

why do people always comapre NHS with the US health system? There are many other alternatives to compare with! NHS sounded brilliant to me before I came to the UK but soon I realised it wasnt what I thought! Everything takes ages, just getting an appointment with a GP requires so much time, effort, stress and luck! It shouldnt be like this in a developped country. In fact I had better and more efficient health care in some developping countries. People always say at least its free but it is not. Its funded by tax payers money. In the end we still paid for private insurances despite paying a lot of taxes towards the NHS. To me the problem isnt NHS staff, they work hard but dont get rewarded for their hard work. It is the system, doctors and nurses dont have incentives to work harder because they are not rewarded for working extra. People abuse the system because its "free". The system was created with a good intention but it clearly isnt working.

My thoughts are that it's not a binary choice between the NHS or the US system. Most other developed countries have perfectly good health systems. Instead of constantly obsessing about the US, we should be learning from Australia, Canada and most of the richer countries of Europe.

I think it desperately needs reforming, luckily the options aren’t just USA vs NHS

My thoughts precisely

Sounds like you need to mov

Sounds like you need to move to another GP surgery, if possible

Although if a practice hasn't been seeing patients for 4 years I doubt they'd still be operating!

I definitely should. In the meantime I have paid for a private GP.
The practice is seeing patients. Just ones with more serious conditions.

My thoughts are that the NHS is so broken and inaccessible to many in its current form, that it is worse than an insured model - where under United Health’s claim refusal stats you at least have a 68% chance of having your care approved and receiving treatment.

The NHS is in a sorry state, and we should be ashamed of how it’s got so bad. I’d love to see it completely revived, but unfortunately I think we spend so long being grateful for it, clapping our saucepans & defending it, that nobody is willing to be objectively critical and fix it.

Personally I'd welcome a move to a more European style healthcare system. The NHS lets far too many patients down, it simply isn't working any more.

I'm happy to pay privately (the difference in how you are treated is night and day!) but sadly there isn't a private form of A&E - if there were I can tell you know it would be extremely popular (and would take pressure off NHS A&E services!)

There is so much waste and inefficiency in the NHS.
DH has just had an operation which was done through health insurance.
He has been sent 5 different mobility aids for use in the 6-12 weeks recovery totalling around £500 when priced on through a mobility website.
We cannot return any of these items and will donate in hopes someone can make use of them. According to the person delivering them, he does multiple drops per day and says the same thing. How many millions are being wasted and contributing to landfill as well.
Sooner we have reformed nhs the better

Perfectly put. I completely agree 👍

I have to say I've been in and out of hospital recently, and I think the treatment and operation that was offered was timely and effective. It may depend on your local GP and hospital service, as I agree people have some awful experiences too.

I think some people are happy with the idea of some kind of health insurance based system. However, poverty does intersect with factors such as disability, sex, class, race etc. Some may fall on hard times and be unable to meet a monthly payment, whereas they could before. If an inability to pay would affect the timeliness of treatment, or its effectiveness, then I would consider that discrimination.

I interpret your comment as saying that people are having to pay lawyers in order to receive proper medical care from the NHS, or spend a lot of energy in advocacy. I don't know how widespread this is, though it sounds concerning.

I agree that well educated people who lead a fairly comfortable life are in the best position to negotiate their health care, if it is needed. I think there are obviously huge pressures on the NHS, leading to long waiting times and reluctance to offer procedures in a timely manner.

In Northern Ireland the NHSi is gone. You won't get a knee or hip for YEARS. The waiting times are ridiculous. Loads of people have to pay on top of paying into the NHS. It's so badly managed. It's shocking.

I agree with you OP. After rarely needing health services most of my life, I have now had cancer twice so multiple hospital appointments and treatments. I'm really grateful for the excellent care I have received for free (I know we all pay through NIC before anyone mentions this).

Exactly how I feel I have got lymphoedema and I really can’t complain with the help that I have had. I am very sorry that some people have had very bad experiences and people say there are different models. We don’t have to follow the American way but let’s be frank here with the way that our politics works if you think we would go the European way I don’t believe it. I don’t. I do think that the American models are trying to get in on the NHS NHS contracts with the American healthcare providers.

I’m happy you received great care, and you highlight a good point - I think this is probably the only area it’s largely very good. Once you’ve had that diagnosis (if you can get it in a timely manner), the treatment is phenomenal.

Trauma in the life critical phase is also world class.
But it’s almost every other possible medical condition that exists, or trauma rehab (once immediate threat to life is ended) where it’s not fit for purpose.

And there’s nothing else to catch people unless you can afford / have access to private healthcare.

@save Hoping for your recovery and better times ahead

Saying things like "cherish", "be grateful" etc about NHS are exactly why NHS has gone to shit.
It's healthcare service but people talk about it like if it's Jesus the 2nd. This emotional language and attachment prevents criticism, bettering and actually also prevents people using it (I feel bad waisting NHS❤️ money😔)

Uk is not the only country with healthcare system accessible to everyone

London has no GP service worth the name and the more we are forced to go private the more it suits the government of the day

I don’t bloody treasure it not do many of the women in my family. Fobbing off and gaslighting seem to be standard with the NHS if you’re female. Pulmonary embolism, nah you’ve just got a chest infection. Deep vein thrombosis, nah that’s just a calf sprain. Heart failure, nah that’s just a bit of stress. Parkinson’s disease, nah you’re just a bit anxious.

Strangely enough the menfolk are always believed and get appointments at the drop of a hat.

I think we need to be clear reform is needed in the NHS absolutely but the reason why I say treasure it is because when I look around at the amount of creams and medications I have had and the amount of time I have had in hospital I have not come out with a big massive bill where I watched a YouTube video of somebody who gave birth in America who even had a charge for them holding her baby briefly I think in that respect we are lucky could it be better? Of course it could be but I don’t want us to go down a model where people get bankrupt.

While it's great that some people have received excellent cancer care within the NHS, that's certainly not universal:

https://news.cancerresearchuk.org/2024/02/27/how-does-cancer-treatment-in-the-uk-measure-up/

"10-15 years behind comparable countries". You can't ignore that.

I seem to remember the cost of breaking your leg was in the tens of thousands in the US. That was quite a few years ago.