2nd Gen British Asian & Out of place

[Youtani]

Is anyone here a child of immigrant parents who has tried hard to integrate but still feels out of place at times?

I grew up with parents who really tried hard to instil their culture and religion in their children. I’ve moved away from a lot of that now but I still feel like I’m often on the edge of British society. This mostly happens where there are conversations happening around me about topics that never really featured in my childhood such as tv, music, films, sport, alcohol, food. I suppose some of that “space” was filled with things from our heritage culture that a British person couldn't relate to. I have learnt a few bits and pieces now but I feel like I can never make up for the many years of immersion in this stuff that my peers had that I missed out on. I see people around me talking about the plots of films that they all seemed to know from their childhood whilst I sit there feeling totally clueless. Sometimes I think I should try to learn more about these things in order to try to fit in but it also feels a little inauthentic. Does anyone else feel this way at all?

@EmeraldRoulette Yes I imagine many people do feel it at times. I guess I wonder whether it’s even more pronounced and happens more often to people like me who grow up “differently”. It’s happening to me more and more now and I can’t put my finger on why. I probably do need to manage my reaction to it and just be comfortable with sitting and listening.

I am Irish while I did travel when it came to settling down and having a family my priority was to return to Ireland.

Your parents were very adventurous and brave to do the opposite. They must have worked hard to share your heritage in a different environment.

I am fortunate to have a large group of friends from across the globe who came here to settle. They work hard on their family embracing distinct Irish culture, whilst also embedding their heritage cultures.

I do think it must be a challenging as people get older. Your points highlight how ignorant those of us can be in assuming our backgrounds are the same.

A friend of mine did a thesis on Polish children being raised in Ireland and the impact it had on them, it followed them from young to adulthood and is i understand informing further research.

I would be surprised if there isn't some research and findings relating to your experience. Maybe seeing your experience is shared would help?

@OnBoardTheHeartOfGold that’s interesting that for you it’s not about not being able to connect but that you still feel out of place. Any thoughts on why?

By observer I don't mean that I don't join in, more that I always feel slightly detached, and find myself analysing a group, even if it's my own family.

I can talk the talk in that, if I'm around the posh side of my family, I can speak the way they do and find things to talk about, but I've never been skiing and I don't go to the opera or the other sorts of things they grew up with. They tend to assume we have a shared frame of reference for these experiences, because they don't know much about what my childhood was like (for various complicated reasons my dad, their uncle, was estranged from the family, so I've only known my cousins as adults, though we are friends now).

On the other side, my mum's family is very working class, and again I can join in and chat about stuff when I'm with them, but I didn't have that childhood either. I'm not one of the gang.

The only time I've ever felt like I really, truly belonged was with the friendship group I had aged from around 17 to 23. I think it was a product of the very specific social mix and environment of my school, which allowed us to find each other. It naturally broke up when people moved away and became adults, but I'm glad I had it.

I think music is can be very difficult to get into as an adult, I find I'm rarely interested in anything new, even in the genres I like. I think for a lot of people their music taste is fixed in adolescence and that's that. Music though is not often a sticking point for universal experiences—loads of people don't like the Beatles. Even among peer groups people will have wildly different taste.

I agree TV tended to be more universal, but our generation (I'm early 40s) is probably the last one for which that is true, because we grew up with four channels. There's so much to watch now that you can't have those "did you see?!" moments anymore.

@theresabluebirdinmyheart I can really relate! My parents shielded us from that stuff as well because they felt it was frivolous and didn’t align with their religious values. I have never met a white British person who grew up in that way. I wonder how unique your experience is given your demographic and whether if you met someone like me who has grown up without those cultural references you might feel a little less out of place.

I too have never seen a Star Wars movie and only watched a James Bond one of the first time a few years back!

The autism angle is interesting. I considered it at one point simply because of the “outsider” feeling but given I don’t feel it in certain contexts and that I don’t show any other signs off it I think it’s probably unlikely

@mitogoshigg I think most people are kind off interested but that interest doesn’t last very long. It certainly doesn’t form the basis for an ongoing connection and relationship with most people in the way that shared memories about tv, music, life experiences etc does because it’s just so unrelatable to most people

The other thing I would say is that there is a phase adults go through in their 30s where they get very nostalgic and bang on about kids TV and stuff. Even for those of us who have the same references, it gets boring having the same conversation about Mysterious Cities of Gold over and over.

@MrTwatchester Did you have to put in the effort to be able to talk the talk in both environments? I often feel like I am code switching when talking to friends vs talking to family but I feel more competent with the latter. I wish I could be proficient in both!

I really felt like I belonged in my school friendship group as well. It was a small year group and my group consisted off all off the girls who were from ethnic minorities plus a few white British girls who I guess weren’t cool enough for the cool group which was exclusively white British.

You’re right about music being difficult to get into as an adult. I’ve really tried but I think my tastes are already set.

TV is another one that came up a few weeks back. There was some chat about Ab Fab. Again everyone seemed to know about it. Whilst I knew off the show but I have never watched it.

Did you have to put in the effort to be able to talk the talk in both environments? I often feel like I am code switching when talking to friends vs talking to family but I feel more competent with the latter. I wish I could be proficient in both!

The code switching comes fairly easily to me now, I suppose, but I've definitely got better at it, mainly because I've become more confident and secure in myself, and am happy to let conversation wash over me if I don't have anything to add, or to change the subject. I'm always very aware of how I'm talking, even as I'm doing it, which I suppose is what I mean by feeling outside of it. It's almost an out of body experience sometimes. I'll replay the conversations in my head afterwards, word for word, and wonder if I said something weird.

I do find social occasions quite knackering generally though, especially dinners with my posh family, because they are VERY loud, complete pissheads, and all talk at once. Takes me days to recover.

@Youtani I guess the reason I feel like I don't fit in is because I can fit in in both.
I don't know if that makes any sense, but I can be with Asians and talk and laugh about about cultural stuff, families, food and so on and I can also do that with British people.
But when I talk with people who are mainly on one side or the other, then I feel like I have to mostly ignore that I have this whole other side of me.
Sometimes there's crossover but not always.

@OnBoardTheHeartOfGold I sort off get that. I think it’s like what I feel when I’m around Asian people of my parents generation. There’s this whole “British “ side off me that I guess they wouldn’t relate to. Then obviously with white British people there would be all the Asian culture stuff that I can’t fully express. I think being around south Asian people of my own generation is where I feel the least out of place. I can express both sides because like me they have grown up straddling both worlds.

I am second generation immigrant and first in the extended in family to go to university in the days when it was a big deal. I grew up in a town where everyone knew each other's families from generations back, my family were incomers. I worked in professional circles in London as a working class northerner. I understand not immediately fitting in.

But I stand by the view that there times when most of us don't feel like we fit in. When you understand that it is much easier. Deal with people one by one and think you will find some common ground with nearly everyone.

@ForPearlViper I do find one on one easier but I also can’t avoid group situations and I often find myself feeling this way after them. Because it makes me feel bad I start wondering whether I should give up on the idea of ever feeling properly integrated in mainstream society and just try to seek out other people who are like me (which is a challenge off its own as well)

I think your concept of mainstream society might be a bit off-kilter OP, it doesn't really exist in a culturally homogeneous way.

Yesterday I went to a sort of school reunion lunch, where I chatted to a mix of people I knew and lots of people I didn't, but we all had in common that we went to the same school, had lived in the same part of the country, were mostly white etc etc. There was surprisingly little common frame of reference between us all (I was thinking about it because of this thread). When chat turned to things like TV, film, politics, sport, music etc, I'd find connection with maybe one or two people about any given reference, but many more people who didn't know it.

As pp said, you're only ever chatting to people one-on-one, and you just find something to talk about. I mostly talked about various alumni, recent news, podcasts, books I've read lately, things like that. Nobody talked about 90s TV (and I know at least two of the people I was on a table with never watched TV, so they would have been lost if we had).

At one point, someone gave a speech which assumed that everyone in the room didn't like the new Labour government, even though I knew that many people in there (myself included) weren't Tories.

There is massive variation within what appear to be homogeneous groups.

Are you living/working in a totally white space? Do you have no Asian friends?

Surely if you do you can talk to them about what interests you.

Not all white people drink Some do not even have a television. Some like folk music, some like rock some like both! Someone I knew did not like any sort of music!!!! We are not all just white blobs you know!

Well expressed. I agree.

By the way, of all the p[eople I work with, I could only chat to one about music. We both loved punk. I could also only talk to one other person about books. Nobody else seemed to read book!

Was so pleased to join a book club. We also talk about films.