Hypothetically if I’m born in India would I be Indian

[eRobin]

I’m a bit nervous asking about this subject incase it’s taken the wrong way. I was speaking with a not-quite friend (an acquaintance as I don’t know them very well but we’re friendly) from Bangladesh. I am Celtic. I asked him hypothetically if I was born in Bangladesh, India, or Africa, would be considered Indian or British or both because of my ethnicity/skin colour. He said I wouldn’t be considered Bengali because I wouldn’t be part of their culture/religion, and other places like India or Africa would feel the same. But when I asked him why he considers himself to be British despite being born here if I couldn’t be classed as Bengali if I was born over there, a woman from Dubai who was also present said that my comment was racist - but I felt that what the person from Bengali had said was racist. Do celtic people not have a culture?

Different countries have different rules for citizenship. You would need to check with their immigration service. For example being born in Great Britain does not necessarily guarantee citizenship. It depends on the status of your parents.

If you are born in India, Bangladesh or wherever and hold a passport for that country then you are entitled to call yourself that nationality. Nationality is not the same ethnicity. I know a white Caucasian person with Indian nationality, no one bats an eyelid until to speaks fluent Hindi!

And yet after 25 years in the U.K., I’m now feeling more British than my home country…..

I think where you ,iced as a chikd is shaping who you feel you are the most. But it’s changeable. More than people often want to acknowledge.

Being born in Britain doesn't make you British. Being born in India doesn't make you Indian

It’s interesting because I have just had a similar talk with my twins who have just turned 18. I was born and grew up in a white English speaking country so used to consider myself white…until with black life matters it triggered me to think more carefully as although my dad is white.. mother was born in Malaysia to Malaysian parents…and it dawned on me I am not white; I don’t even look white.

So I changed my forms to mixed race other. Now with my twins - one looks very English with blonde hair, blue eyes, fair skin and the other looks a bit Malaysian with dark hair, dark eyes, olive skin - I explained to them with their heritage they are technically mixed race Asian but they can now choose where they identify for forms. My English looking son said he can not say he is mixed race Asian as he doesn’t look it and he’s stayed white on his forms. My slightly Malaysian looking daughter now sees herself as mixed race Asian so uses this on forms. So I have twins who fill in their forms differently - part of this stuff is how the person sees themselves.

English is not a nationality.

I think it doesn't take much to understand what I mean... it's not rocket science.

I definitely fit in more in England than my home country- the people are very different! But when I visit my home country it feels just as homely as England does to me. It's a weird part of a person's identity!

I grew up in India, so can comment on this particular issue (not the other countries in the sub continent)
If you are born in India, and have Indian citizenship, you are Indian. There are many famous ethnically white celebrities who consider themselves Indian and are indeed Indian (Kalki Koechlin, Jamie Alter, Mark Tully, many who I cannot think of now)

But they would not be Bengali or Marathi, as that is an ethnicity.

The same way that my children are born in Wales and consider themselves British, but are most certainly not Welsh

I wondered this sort of with race

Someone on social media was going on about "your forefathers" as in "your white forefathers" but mine weren't all white?

I am white but my features aren't (hard to explain) and my mums great grandad was black
I sort of feel like I should acknowledge that ancestry/heritage somehow but I'm not mixed race

I'm actually fed up with people pussy footing around issues of race. People are so apologetic in case anything they say is either ignorant or could be taken the wrong way. People are far too quick to yell 'racism' today but without explaining why. In my view there is nothing wrong with asking legitimate questions about race in order to learn.
I actually see your point OP. However, I suppose the question might be, if you were born in India and your children and their children were also born in India and bought up somewhat culturally as Indian, would they then be seen as Indian. Whilst we are generally more tolerant now in this country and accepting of later generations, lets not forget that the first generation of Indians/west indians etc born in this country were still seen as foreigners more than the third generation. It's an interesting question though. I sort of think that everyone is generally racist (or tribal) at heart and most people feel threatened by sudden change. Acceptance and integration takes time.

Sonia Gandhi is an interesting case study of a white person in India

Although some people also say race is simply a social construct anyway

Speaking scientifically, race is a social construct because there is only (currently) one "race" - genetic studies now available to us have refuted the existence of biogenetically distinct races. We are the last surviving species of the "homo" genus although that does not mean that we have stopped evolving (hopefully!); nor that we may not become another genus in the future.

Because Brits themselves proclaimed their culture to be “diverse” and somewhat inclusive, and Bangladeshis did not.

It does if you were born in India between 26 January 1950 and 1 July 1987.

Though India does not recognise dual nationality, so if you were, for example, also a British citizen by virtue of being born in India to a mother who was married to your British citizen father, you would have to renounce your British citizenship to take up your Indian one....

If you’re ‘very anxious about getting it wrong’ maybe don’t start questioning people about race and nationality?

You are confusing the legal definition of being a citizen of a country with if you would be accepted by nationals of a country. The two are different.

Legally, if you are born in the UK to parents who do not have the legal right to be in the UK you are not a British Citizen. However if you have fully integrated into a culture those around you would mostly perceive you to be that nationality, so culturally you are accepted but legally you would not be a British Citizen e.g. Windrush victims.

This also works in reverse legally you are a British Citizen but if you are perceived to have not integrated into British culture (especially by those with far right views) even though you are British people will regard you as a foreigner.

English is a nationality.

Your nationality is the country you come from - French, Russian, Canadian, Irish.

Yes this is what I was going to say. It's over 40 years since being born in Britain made you British.

You're right, it's really very simple. Which is why you should know your own nationality, don't you think?

If being born in India gets you Indian nationality, yes, in that sense you’d be Indian. You would have an Indian passport by birth.

(I used to live in India and I suspect they don’t have nationality by birth, but just for the example).

Culturally, and ethically, no, you wouldn’t be Indian. Because you aren’t.

Well in the hypothetical scenario, we have no idea what ops culture is - if she's schooled in the town she was born in, speaks the local language as her first language, eats the same foods as her peers, obeys the same rules even if not the religion or indeed follows the same religion etc then why is she not culturally Indian based purely on the pigments in her skin?

No idea what ethically Indian means unless you mean Ethnically? You right there but how important is that Vs culture?

The answer is real simple… I don’t know why everyone isn’t clear on the differences between ethnicity and nationality!

You would hold Indian nationality since you were born there however you wouldn’t be ethnically Indian.

Just like how lots of us in the UK are ethnically from another country but are British via nationality having been born here.

British isn’t an ethnicity… English is.

I’m British but not English.

Yes, that. I, similarly, am Sri Lankan because I was born there and raised there but I'm not Tamil or Sinhala, because those are specific ethnic groups.

Lots of countries don't give nationality just because you're born there. It depends on the status of your parents. If your mother came to the UK on holiday and gave birth, you wouldn't have British nationality automatically, your nationality would depend on your parents status.

The USA is one of the exceptions to this. Being born on American soil does make you entitled to American citizenship.